Ya but would you trade Francis for Mike Bibby? He is also a true point guard. How about Payton? He is a great point guard. What about Terrel Brandon? Another great playmaker. What about Jamal Tinsley?...None of those guys will make our team better. Francis is better than all of them. So you make like Kidd but he will not lead you to a championship like Francis can...
In my mind a true point guard would be when T.J. Ford comes to the NBA. He passes very well and knows how to drive to the basket. He is very quick. If he justs work on his shot and be consisent he could be a ideal true point guard to me.
Who was the "true point guard" on the Rockets in '94? Or '95? Who was the "true point guard" on the Bulls in '91? '92? '93? '96? '97? '98? Who was the "true point guard" on the Lakers in 2000? 2001? The last champion that had a "true point guard" on their team in like 12 years would be the Spurs, with Avery Johnson. Are you saying that what this team needs to win a title is Avery Johnson?
I'll take it a step further... Was Isaiah Thomas a "true point guard?" Was Magic Johnson? Was Danny Ainge? Does Francis have a chance to be as good as those guys?
Damn y'all beat me to the champions with "true point guards" point. But thanks for taking care of it. Good thing too cuz I was gonna list the Spurs because somehow I had forgotten about Avery. But 1 out of about 17 still ain't good.
Sorry for being so harsh, but all DD posts are negetive BS. We have a POINT GUARD from the HOUSTON ROCKETS who will be making his first trip to the all-star game, but instead of celebrating his achivements from the POINT GUARD position, we have people out there who want to move him around. I'm not bying it..
In terms of "true point guards" and championships, there's a distinction you're overlooking... True that most recent Champions haven't had "true" PG's, but on none of those teams did the PG play that significant of a role, "true", or otherwise...Of the last teams who did feature their point guard, Magic's Lakers, and Isiah's Pistons, both guys were extreme distributors who really involved their teammates.. On teams like the Bulls and Rockets, the PG's weren't much more than additional shooters..both were built around other guys, and very little creativity was needed to get MJ or Dream involved...There wasn't much mystery who the ball was going to.. However, when your team is built around your PG, then history and common sense show that he HAS to be something of a "true" point man if you're going to win anything...When the focus of your offense is also the initiator of said offense, it's very easy to devise team defenses which force that man to give up the ball or take bad shots. If the latter isn't an extreme part of his game, that means it's easy to take the focus of an offense out of his game. And this is even more evident in the playoffs, when the opposing coach has days to teach/devise defenses to stop one specific team. Also, if the team said PG plays with aren't used to his being a distributor first, they also have to adapt come playoff time when opposing defense key on forcing the PG to give up the ball, and then you've got your whole team playing a new kind of basketball, and any coach will tell you that if you can make the opposition try and play an unfarmiliar game, you've done everything you want...
So you're saying Francis isn't a distributor. You listed Isiah and Magic. Both of those guys could hit the big shot. Which would you say is harder to learn -- a) hitting the big shot, or b) learning to set up teammates? Your answer should be "b". If you can't hit the big shot, you ain't leading your team nowhere. We have a guy who can hit that shot, in his third year. Are you saying that since he hasn't learned how to distribute yet, you want to 1) alter the lineup and put someone else in the point guard spot, thus moving Cuttino out, or 2) get rid of him altogether? I don't necessarily have a problem with getting rid of Francis, but it ain't because he ain't a distributor.
Actually, I wasn't saying either. I was just addressing what I saw as a flaw in the reasoning re: "true" point guards and Championships...what relevance this has with the Rockets is another point altogether. I would say that RIGHT NOW, Francis isn't enough of a distributor to lead us to a ring...But I also think that he's just 2 1/2 years removed from his junior year, and still has plenty of room for improvement in this area, provided he wants to. Also, re: big shot vs. distribution. I don't really agree...Guys like Vinnie Johnson, Steve Kerr, Mario Elie, Robert Horry, Byron Scott, Jeff Hornacek, Tim Hardaway, etc.etc. learned how to hit the "big shot" without ever becoming the kind of guy to lead a team to a championship. There are also several guys who have been great distributors who never did either, but I'm not sure that one is particularly more valuable than the other, especially for a point guard. Also, I think that it's easier to learn to hit shots than involve a whole team. There are many guys who evolved into big-shot hitters, but how many became great distributors who weren't that way coming in?
TheFreak Why are you so Ho-Hum when talking about the life span of Francis in a Houston Rocket uniform. Just wondering..
Francis3422, if you limit it to who would produce more wins for the Rockets this year, Steve or Jason Kidd, you might have a case. But would you really trade a 23 yr old Steve for a 28 yr old Kidd? Kidd is at the top of his game, but there's no way I'm trading 10 years of Franchise for 5 years of Kidd. Not to mention Kidd's poor shooting stroke - that's fine when you're on a team with lots of other weapons, but on the Rockets? Sheesh! You think Cuttino gets doubled now?
I do not want to trade Francis, what I want is for him to make smarter basketball decisions. All of those great players that were mentioned had one thing in common..SMARTS...they knew how to win. Francis and Mobley try to do it on their own, it makes the game hard. All they need to do is start moving the ball, and trust that they will get it back, and the whole team gets better. Take the Charlotte game tonight, in the 4th quarter our guys were turning it over left and right, thus we lose a 10 point lead. A little smarts at this point and there is no overtime necessary, in fact the Rockets would have won easily. All I want is our supposed superstar to start playing like it on both sides of the court. I think Francis is amazingly athletically gifted, but he slacks on defense and does not YET play smart ball. If you don't like the truth, then I can't help you. DaDakota
The game was tied at the end of the third quarter. They also actually came back from 5 down with 3-4 minutes to go to send it into overtime.
I thought you wanted a pure point guard. Pure point guard doesn't necessarly play the best D. Pure point guards usually are great passers like Bibby, Brandon, Avery Johnson not great defenders.
The league isn't what it was. Point guards DO score now. Baron Davis, Gary Payton, Andre Miller, Stephon Marbury...these are all guys cut from a different point guard mold. They all have their individual games and they all like to put the ball in the basket. Just like Olajuwon used to lead the Rockets in turnovers because he had the ball in his hands the most, likewise Francis. He does make some rough decisions at times but not as many as he has in his first two years. His stats continue to improve and he continues to be the go-to guy for this team. The great players always improve and Francis has shown that he has been able to do that improving his shot and shot selection as well as his decision making. He isn't there yet, but he is getting there.
Actually, I don't give a rats pattootie if we have a PURE anything, as long as we have SMART play on the court. The 10 point lead I was referring too was in the 3rd quarter, and we gave it up by playing stupidly and turning the ball over far too often. Francis had a good game, but if you take into account the 6 turnovers his game pales in comparison to Baron Davis' game. However, I will take the win !!!!!!!! That is really all that matters !! But...I do enjoy watching Sacremento and New Jersey play ball, they really play smart basketball, and it is no great shock to see them leading their respective conferences. DaDakota PS Jeff, Francis Turnovers are actually UP this year
Yes Thomas was a true point guard. How many times did he avg 1 turnover for every 2 assists? He made exellent court decisions. Magic was with out any doubt a true point. He was the epitome of a true point guard. He made flawless court decisions and knew how to get the ball to who at just the right time. No one ran the brake better. Don't think that because Magic was 6'9" and could rebound that he was not a true point guard. Was Danny Ainge a true point guard? No he played the 2. Dennis Johnson was the point guard for the Celtics back then and yes he made damn good decisions while running the Celtics offense. Once again I don't think he ever avg'd 1 turnover for every two assists.
I'd be the last person to say our guards are without fault and play as smart as they could. I wish they would play defense better. I love the thought of them on the Rockets for the next 5-10 years though. I'd like to say that Francis' turnovers being up this year this year are completely a product of the lineups changing so much and the resulting miscommunication. Sadly though, part of it is stupid play. Give Francis this much though. When you have that kind of talent, sometimes you think you can do the impossible. I'd rather have a confident, even cocky guard than a timid one who plays smart all of the time.
Also, To answer the question about whether Francis is as good as Thomas or Johnson. NOT EVEN CLOSE !!! Both of those guys came into the league and were light years ahead in baskeball skills over Francis. Francis is a better athlete, but lacks the "savvy" that these 2 displayed straight out of college. I will leave you with a famous quote from Isaiah. "I could score 50 points a night any time I want, but we would probably lose" NOW THAT IS UNDERSTANDING WINNING BASKETBALL !!! DD
