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Why wars in the Middle East will cost the U.S. trillions more

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Cohete Rojo, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Andrew Bacevich likes talking doom and gloom. So, if that's your thing, enjoy. See also, here and here.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-war-college-bacevich-podcast-idUSKCN1020CS
    <iframe width="100%" height="166" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/274779525&amp;color=ff5500&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false"></iframe>
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    We should just let them keep killing each other, unless we can get the other large nations to agree on a plan of how to topple all the religious zealots and despots and put into place proper democracies.

    DD
     
  3. Honey Bear

    Honey Bear Contributing Member

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    Isolating Islam is the only way forward - killing is all they know how to do and deeply embedded into their subconscious. The reasons don't matter, they've creatively waged jihad on everyone and everything for 2 straight millenia. This is all fueled by a strong case of denial, which you see from "moderates" on this board when their civilized "cover" is blown during debates.

    Need to start deporting those who aren't ideologically aligned with modern civilization - they add nothing of value to the economy or modern culture that a Chinese, Indian or other non muslim minority on an H1 can't do and surpass within a month.

    Respect is earned - get your affairs together and come back when you can play with the big boys --- and by that I don't mean your 14 year old nephew.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Seems that you can still watch Lawrence of Arabia and get a feel for what is still going on...so tribal. I could see the rest of the civilized world saying "Enough" and toppling all Arab theocracies and despots, and setting up proper republics.

    It would take a generation or two to finally bring the middle east into modern progressive thinking, but it would probably be best for the planet.


    DD
     
    #4 DaDakota, Jul 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2016
  5. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    You are mentally pathetic.
     
  6. Dei

    Dei Member

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    Can we just admit most of the world would be better off as Western colonies?
     
  7. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    If middle east does not have oil, it would be ingored like Africa, but currently oil is still very important.
     
  8. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    I think it is crucial to remember that if the wars are costing trillions, then people are also receiving trillions. To me, the real reason the wars will cost trillions more is that people want to receive trillions more.

    Where do those trillions come from? Taxes on the general public. Where do those trillions go? Some 1% types. It is income redistribution, which results also in power redistribution.
     
  9. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Africa isn't ignored: Britain spent a century and a half there, and everything in your parents' or grandparents' jewelry box probably comes from there. They've never had a common religion, language or stable military, even at a state or provincial level; so individual bribes and case-level insurgency was enough to co-opt or sabotage regimes for mineral deposits.
     
  10. Liberon

    Liberon Rookie

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    Why not place a giant magnet over the region to pick up all the weapons. Then toss down bosses of Nerf guns and nerf ammo.
     
  11. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Who then fund and employ tens of thousands of engineers and assemblers. The amount of money is too large to not permeate to the general public, not too say it's not unsustainable.
     
  12. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    It is of course not completely ignored, but for all practical purpose, it is ignored today.
     
  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Pretty much. Their dictators have their house in order.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    You should stick to remaking games from the 80's.

    We have been toppling regimes for the last 40 years. Where have you been?
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Really? Don't the Saudis have a Kingdom? What would need to happen is that you take out all of those faith based leaders - and introduce the brainwashed masses to true freedom.

    And it can't be WE as in US, it has to be a collective deal - EU, Russia, China, all the large powers would have to agree to carve up the middle east for the good of the world.

    It would not be easy and it will take about 100 years to finish but eventually you will turn around the region.

    And I am not REMAKING anything I am rebooting a franchise from the 90s with a prequel.

    :)

    DD
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Crying from laughter. Priceless when someone ignorant about basic middle east history/politics suggests a 60 year old, existing, failed plan as the solution.

    Tremendous, really tremendous. *clap clap clap*

    No worries guys, oil is becoming obsolete much sooner than you expect and even the most powerful, aggressive military in the modern history of the world won't be able to contain the **** storm that follows. I don't plan to be around for that party, but your peeps are welcome to stick around.

    In reality though they will be out of here 2 seconds after the oil is worthless. We all know that. Maybe on that day, you'll do a little arithmetic and figure out proportionally how many more people were murdered in the Middle East more than were already murdering each other before your peeps got here. That's not specific to them, that's what happened with India, Spain, a dozen African countries, all throughout colonial history.

    That's just what empire does, and frankly you have almost no say in it. I know Americans have a conscience and they tried to stop the Iraq war for example but to no avail. When state intelligence, military, executive and corporate media conspire against you without giving you a chance to organize, it is usually hopeless to even try. They learned how to deal with your voices in the 60's.

    The process of extracting wealth by suppressing sovereign rights is always a bloody one. I know you're thinking they probably reduced the killing, but they didn't. We didn't have the means to kill this much, nowhere near it. And they supported one side of almost every war in the Middle East (and sometimes, both sides), and it wasn't always the good guys. It was, however, always the richer guys.

    Combined with the fickleness with which they will just pick up and leave, you might even laugh at how ridiculous this invasion was. Then you will do a bit more arithmetic and ask yourself where the F is all the money from 60+ years of invasion? Everything is as bad as it ever was, YOU are tens of trillions of dollars in the hole at that point, no safer than you ever were, 99% of you will be no richer than your grandparents were and now their expansion into Africa will begin accelerating. It's actually already in the works.

    That's the day you will figure out, they ****ed you and they ****ed us too. Those people are who they are. They are not going to be principally different to foreigners than they are to locals, they are just more restricted in what they're capable of doing to you. Don't spend another dime on a failed plan that's bleeding trillions of dollars from your tax money which could otherwise go to health or education or green energy. Extremely rich people and their obedient minions can't get over their xenophobia but you shouldn't have to suffer for that.

    Do you genuinely care about democracy in some Middle Eastern country more than you do about helping poor Americans? How come when it's time to bomb some brown people, money appears out of thin air and it's ok to run up the deficit? But when it's time to feed one of the - for example - 46% of African American CHILDREN currently living in poverty in the wealthiest nation on earth... there's no money?

    Let's help those kids out and everyone who needs helps desperately. There are a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of people in America who need help urgently more than there are people who would benefit in any way at all from any changes at all in the Middle East. The politicians tell you there's not enough money to go around. What do you do? Do we let them go ahead and try something they have failed at 99 out of 100 times? At what cost?

    Wake up peeps. Hurt for your own people, just a little bit. It sucks, I know it sucks to hear what your empire is doing. But it's not your fault, you don't really have a hand in it. If you were making money from it or had a decisive say in it, I'd understand. But you're not. They are.
     
  17. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    it is over-simplistic to call one party as the one responsible of what is going on in ME or to use just one factor to determine who is to blame

    -cold war era boundaries were clear , each claimed to be the good guy v. the bad one , as simple as that to hundred of millions out there who can ideologically identify with one or another , of-course deep under the skin it was about money,influence,control and self prosperity and protection to certain life styles and such..

    when it comes to ME, it gets complicated, for people who lives there , it is always pointing a finger at someone else preferably a foreigner ,whether that was the Soviet,USA ,Israeli,British-French , it was never our fault, we like to be victimized or what we call it :mathlooms in Arabic , that is much easier to get out self an excuse to do nothing to take on our fate , unforgettably whatever took place , is well deserved

    for the US , its confusing for real. who is the good guy and how can you make sure it the the fault of the bad one. obviously , they inherited former territories of former British-French regional influences and bags of underlining conflicts . the 9/11 is a demonstration how an ally of 15 Saudi nationals with Iranian aid and shelters were capable to set their differences aside and strikes , that was going on for 2 decades earlier , whether it was in Beirut or Khubbar tower and no one could be happier than the Israelis

    here is a list of modern history conflicts
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_the_Middle_East


    there are two trends : national /independence conflicts which was dominated most of the early 1920s then you have post 1979 trends more often toward ethnic/sectarians conflicts , by large margin , those who died or suffered from such conflict are greater than those who were killed by American forces .
     
  18. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    We don't even need their oil anymore. It would at least increase oil prices in America and maybe get Houston out of its economic rut. Maybe a ban on oil imports?
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Stop selling weapons to them as well

    Rocket River
     
  20. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    It's an illusion to think not buying oil or arming is going to make a difference , the US influence has been marginalized at best.

    by the way : how did the trillion $ flushed down the desert ! No one knows , records were largely :missing, inaccurate,TBD , but whenever there is a war, there are a few who become super rich
     

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