[Why teams win?]And why we cannot lose Battier/Hayes/Scola

Scola/Battier/Hayes are the surviving members of the JVG era. Every other player (sans yao) has been brought up or put in adelman's system. They've played through those knock em' down drag em' out years where we would score 80 and win. They give our team identity. However with Brooks, Martin, Ariza, Hill, keeping Scola and getting Yao back, we won't ever have the same defensive edge that we did but we'll be solid defensively while scoring much more. This is a trade-off i've been willing to have happen for awhile now.

 

I hope we retain all three.

However Hayes' option most likely will put us over the luxury tax line given that we sign Scola/Lowry to 10-13 million overall. If we just barely cross it, I can see Morey retaining him and then trying to ship Andersen or somebody + pick to get under. If we somehow manage to add so much salary that we project to be over the line before Chuck's option, he's most likely gone.

I don't believe Morey will trade Battier for peanuts either. While possibly being overpaid next season, he still has value to the team as defender/leader off the bench even after next season. Hopefully we are then able to sign him cheap.

Scola should be here next season. Outside of some team going crazy and giving him over 10m per season, we'll match the lesser offers.

 

agree with original poster, these three guys are invaluable to the team.

 

I think its a safe assessment that we can rank the three of them by importance in this order:
1)Scola
2)Battier
and
3)Hayes

Would I like to have all three here next season? Yes. But if we need to get rid of one, I'd say to get rid of chuck

 

scola came after jvg left i believe?

 

I agree with the OP to an extent, but it's a little short-sighted. We were winning games with Yao and McGrady before Battier, Scola, Hayes, etc ever got here, and there were many more reasons than the losses of Batter/Armstrong that their respective ex-teams fell to pieces.

 

We already lost our identity, defensive, and grit. Whats two or three more guys . Let me enjoy real men playing basketball in peace. Keep em around.

 

trugoy:

Interesting theory. To strengthen it though you need to look at all cases where a team had a change of crew though and compare before and after records. Are there other cases of other teams having your definition of the consumate coaches players that have left the team and what has happened to those teams?

Secondly I think where you're actually heading is highlighting the effect of guys with high +/- impact on their teams and what happens when they go away.

Consider in your examples:

05-06 Grizzlies - guess who had the highest +/- on that team? Battier

07-08 Pistons - Billups had the highest +/- on that team

I can't find data for +/- numbers back for the Magic that far back.

Of course individual player +/- doesn't tell the whole story but I think a piece of your puzzle lies in that.

If we take a look at the individual +/- for the Rockets this season the person that's missing on your list is Lowry.

 

Funny you should mention Ray Allen as they were shopping him around.

and Derek Fisher? Really, he's not doing anyone any favors.

My point is, all of these guys are quickly moving to the ends of their careers and their respective teams are having to make plans for their departure.

 

2007-2008 Pistons 59-23
2008-2009 Pistons 35-43(with iverson)

IN hindsight, the billups-iverson trade looks really lopsided, but remember at the time, Iverson was still considered one of the best players in the league, as well as Billups plays, I think it's his locker room leadership that pistons miss the most, and that denver gained the greatest benefit from. And from a skill perspecitive I don't think anyone thought that pistons would drop off that much, they pretty much had the entire core from the consecutive ECF team plus their young players stuckey, bynum, maxiell, amir were all improving.

This trade was made because detroit was rebuilding, they knew that they have gotten as far as they could get and were now moving on. They cleared 3 years of of 12 million dollar salaries by moving Chansey and taking on iversons expireing contract. They knew that they were losing leadership and intangibles, and knew what chansey brought to the table(Finals MVP). With that cap room however they signed 2 ****ty backup players in Villenuava and ben gordon which turned out to be a terrible move and make them seem worse without chansey.

I think that battier and hayes are definitely expendable. Although for now battier can bring alot of experience and leadership to our young players like taylor and bud, and because the rockets are one of the youngest teams in the NBA. However IMO he doesn't perform good enough on the court. IMO Rick Aldeman can bring this veteran leadership to the team and has been doing it for the last couple of years. He realizes this is a very young team and pushes them hard through having more practices and demands more from this young team.

 

Stop overvaluing role players.

 

Disagree.

 

Morey almost traded Battier twice. Once to Phoenix for Amare, but the deal left no time for medical evaluations. The other time was over last summer after obtaining Ariza but he was afraid Battier was "the glue guy".

Battier himself said he was surprised to be back this year. He is as good as gone this summer or next season before the trade deadline.

Also, I love Chuck and all (not as starting center) but he's as good as gone as well. Remember we'll be paying luxury tax on whatever salary we give him if we bring him back. Like I said, I love Chuck but I'm not paying 5+ million for him.

I'm guessing Morey plans on replacing Battier and Chuck as team captains this summer with a trade (maybe Bosh please?) As others have said, I can also see us going after Camby or Ginobili or both this summer as well.

 

gota have strong leadership.. players that do the little things cuz thats truly what win games.. fundamentally sound players that are scrappy

ill take substance over style any day.. jus ask Tim Duncan

 

Well Shane is gone for the next couple of games. The last game he missed vs the Jazz they dropped like 200 points on us at a 70% clip. We can see if that continues or was just a coincidence.

 

I haven't seen Scola speaking with any of his teammates this season, or probably never.
I love Scola though, his heart and his hustle on the court are enough to be a good leadership, But I always though battier has been the leader of this team since he got traded here, him and Mutambo always been the vocal presence of our team in the court and in the lockeroom.

 

FWIW, Scola was a team leader all his seasons in Europe, at age 18, he was the youngest foreign player on Spanish league (ACB only allowed 2 extra-Bosman were allowed back then), and played for Cabitel Gijon, a lousy team.

At such age he was the one man band of Gijon, avoiding the team to be sent to an inferior category (in spain the 2 worst teams are sent to another league (LEB league), and the beast teams from LEB are promoted to ACB.

There is another anecdote of argentinian players in Spain, Scola was 17 back then, but he alone was the one comforting the other argentinian much older than him, players when they felt bad from being far from home in the constant fight to get a place and minutes in their teams.

Later on Tau Ceramica, he was the perennial captain over other more seasoned players. He was the goto guy who never surrendered, even on the worst defeats.

He already spoke English before going to NBA. Anyway, I'm not sure if he displays such kind of leadership (on and off court) at Houston, it would be interesting to know.

 

If people think we are slowly losing our identity from the last couple of years, wait until Scola/Battier are gone. We'll look like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off with Yao and his broken foot in the middle.

I honestly believe that Scola/Hayes/Battier bring stability to our squad. Overlooked players talent-wise, but will do whatever it takes to win. This is important because it will rub off on the rest of the team (not all players possess that never-give up attitude). Now how it will actually translate to wins/losses if we are able to net more talented players, I don't know. However, I would definitely hate to see them go.

 

battier and chuck gotta go.

 

Yup, Rockets MUST keep Scola(talent wise)...but Shane Battier's leadership and voice would be missed if he were gone.