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why so many PFs?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ransom122, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. aeolus13

    aeolus13 Member

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    No. We have a lot of PF's because Scola and Chuck are good, Hill was the only thing of value NY had, and the BPAs in the last few drafts happen to play that position. When the season begins and we start to make trades, that depth will return to a more normal level. I'm not sure where this misconception that the team makes personnel decisions based on senseless formulas that have no current or historical correlation to winning comes from, but no matter how many times it gets swatted down, it just seems to sprout right back up again.

    And by the way, the reason the A's 'flamed out', as you put it, is partially due to randomness in terms of how prospects turn out, but a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that other clubs realized the value of QA and Moneyball methods and adopted them. The market inefficiencies that Oakland feasted on in the past have largely disappeared because other teams are copying their techniques, and when all is said and done they're a team with no money in a very rich league.
     
  2. meh

    meh Member

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    Yeah, I knew it was kind of difficult. I just kind of figured Morey the type who can work such magic. :p

    But it would be the only way I see Chucky fitting into our long term plans. Otherwise, depressing because I really like him as a Rocket lifer.
     
  3. meh

    meh Member

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    That and team were handing out 100 million dollar contracts to A's players when they became free agents. Imagine if Bagwell, Biggio, Oswalt, Berkman, etc. all went to the Yankees when they became FAs, anyone think the Astros could've kept going to the playoffs year after year?
     
  4. Northside Storm

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    No, Morey's BPAs in that draft happen to play that position. How he selects those BPAs is based on whatever his criteria happens to be. Knowing him to be a statistically discerning fellow, it is very likely that undersized 3/4 hybrids and pure 1s demonstrate something statistically awesome. Talking about trades doesn't work either, because in almost every trade, we've picked up more of these pieces---Dragic/Flynn/T-Will/Hill. It seems to show that Morey is inclined towards picking and trading for these players.
     
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I would say most teams are looking at the body of the person than what the person can do with his body. Most teams don't want a short PF so they don't draft them. Morey just drafts the best player and guys that don't meet the look test tend to get looked over by other teams and are the best players left at the Rockets draft position.
     
  6. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    You COULD do something very similar to what the Thunder did with Collison, with one huge difference:

    It would need to be two separate contracts.

    First, sign Hayes to a one-year deal for well above his market value, with a wink-wink understanding that Hayes would then sign a cheap, long-term deal in 2012.

    Then, assuming that Hayes doesn't pull a Boozer on the Rockets, sign him to that long-term deal ASAP in July 2012 in order to clear up any cap room that would otherwise be occupied by his cap hold.

    This strategy (1) is technically a violation that could cost the Rockets future first rounders (but if they aren't stupid like Minnesota and can avoid putting anything in writing, they should be "okay") and (2) requires a great deal of trust that Chuck Hayes will not leave in 2012 for more money--or a better chance at a championship ring--elsewhere.
     
  7. mrjohn

    mrjohn Member

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    considering our relative skill in drafting, I would never want to do that.
     
  8. aeolus13

    aeolus13 Member

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    I can see why you'd say this. It wouldn't surprise me if, over a very long time horizon, you can expect to see a slightly greater-than-average number of undersized Rockets (at every position) simply because height is both desirable and easily measured by even the dumbest teams. Because of this, height is probably significantly overvalued in personnel decisions. But that doesn't represent a preference for smaller players, or players who play a specific position, on the part of Morey. It's because even if two players have the EXACT same offensive and defensive production, the taller one will be more desirable to more teams and thus cost more to acquire.

    I think you're seeing a pattern where one doesn't really exist. The trades we've made in the last few years can be broken down into two categories: players we targeted, and players we picked up because they were the best deal we could get at the time.

    Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, and T-Will are all players that Morey had on his radar and went out and got. Whatever you think of their quality, they're not undersized (or power forwards) You could also include the Big Junas in this category since we made a deal specifically to get him, but being undersized is not one of his flaws.

    Hill, Dragic, Flynn, and Thabeet are all guys that we acquired as throw-ins to larger deals made in limited-time situations. We took Hill in the T-Mac/Martin/Landry deal because the Knicks couldn't give us any more picks and the rest of their team was trash. Dragic and Thabeet were throw-ins to deals for the draft picks we got for Brooks and Battier, who we were going to lose in free agency anyways. Flynn was a salary dump for Minny that we got when we traded up for Donatas.

    Besides, there's only one Rockets PF that is truly undersized, and that's Chuck. Scola is average. Patterson's standing reach (the only measure that really matters) is only an inch less than Horford's. Hill, Parsons, and Donatas are all above average, and Morris was drafted with the expectation that he would spend significant time at the three. I don't see it.
     
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  9. don grahamleone

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    JVG saw 2s and 3s as the same position. Perhaps McHales sees 3s, 4s and 5s as the same player.
     

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