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Why Morey is still a genius - or how Houston's free agency unravelled

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by trugoy, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    The fact that Utah would have matched it doesn't it mean it wasn't a ridiculous offer. The fact that Cleveland MIGHT have offered him the max doesn't mean it wouldn't have been a ridiculous offer.

    You're paying max dollars for a player who's FG% AND TS% has been on a steady decline since his rookie year 4 years ago, a player who has never had a PER higher than 16.8 in his 4 seasons in the NBA (to put that into perspective, Terrence Jones hasn't had a PER lower than 17 in his two seasons), and a player that just turned in the worst 3PT shooting % of his career last year.

    THAT's worth max dollars?

    Just because there are idiots in the league who gives out max contracts to players doesn't mean the player has max contract value.
     
  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    you believe too many unconfirmed reports. How is Hayward who has done nothing significant up to this point in the NBA would people easily predict him getting a max offer?
     
  3. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    I'm not saying whether he's worth it, the fact that MULTIPLE teams were lining up to give Hayward max dollars means that that's his market value and ANY front office that is competent should have known this.

    Rockets have one of the best front offices, and you can be sure that they knew Hayward and Parsons would get max offers.

    So there is NO way that Morey somehow would be surprised that Parsons got a max level offer.
     
  4. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Hayward went to visit with Cleveland first but did he leave with a max offer sheet? Nope. I seriously doubt he would have continued his Free Agency tour to Charlotte if Cleveland had gave him an offer sheet to sign.
     
  5. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Multiple teams? :rolleyes:

    There was only ONE team that gave him a max offer sheet and that was Charlotte.

    Hayward went to Cleveland and left without a max offer, heading to Charlotte.

    After that, ANY team can say "Oh yea, we would have given him a max contract". Phoenix, per your link, say they "MAY" have went as high as the max. You're also talking about a team that don't think Bledsoe is worth the max but Hayward is? :rolleyes:
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    Rockets have an excellent front office, they have NEVER not matched on a RFA before Parsons, they know what people's market value is and they either;

    1. Know they are going to match, Lowry, Landry.

    2. Know they won't match, so they trade them first, Courtney Lee, Patrick Patterson, Aaron Brooks, etc....

    3. Know that they have other bidders that could provide unfavorable terms, so that it's more beneficial for the Rockets to make an offer by avoiding "screw you" provisions in a matched contract, see Luis Scola's contract.
     
  7. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    How many of those players signed max contract offer sheets?
     
  8. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    Here is what we know; 2 teams have been confirmed to offer him the max, 3 other teams were rumored to offer him the max.

    You will never find an actual report of more than 2 teams offering him the max because the only team reported will be the team he actually chooses to accept the contract from.
     
  9. jump shooter

    jump shooter Contributing Member

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    But when your given a free voucher for "one year" to the top shelf steak house, its even harder to justify in giving it away. I can guarantee you everything that if Morey had it to do all over again there is absolutely no way he lets Parsons out a year early on his contract without trying to get something in return. Hell Morey could have offered Parsons and the NOP pick and change for Dragic or Rondo and he would have had a great shot at pulling it off IMO.
     
  10. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    The Rockets knew the market value for every single one.

    You don't find it odd that the Rockets tend to trade every single RFA they don't plan on matching, and they match or offer every RFA they keep?

    Morey maximises his assets and part of that is knowing the market value of every single asset.
     
  11. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    Here is the problem, in Parsons final year, he could not be traded without his consent, he has a veto on any trades, which makes him not a great trade piece.

    My theory is that Morey let him out a year early to turn Parsons into a max level TPE because he value that more.
     
  12. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    The two teams are Charlotte and Utah. Charlotte offered and Utah matched.

    Outside of that we can only assume on things that have happened or WOULD have happened. Cleveland made its pitch to Hayward and he still went to Charlotte. Wouldn't you agree that if they offered him the max Gordon would have signed it? Phoenix can say whatever they want because they 1. have caproom and 2. they didn't get a chance to meet with Hayward.
     
  13. conquistador#11

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    oh hey we do have a bunch of analrapists here.
     
  14. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    As far as the reasons why he let Parsons going into RFA I'm not going to get into that because there are way too many variables and things that could have caused that to happen. Should it have happened? At the time, no it shouldn't have. Hindsight? Heck no it shouldn't have. But it did.

    You can only speculate the market and Morey probably put a real and reasonable value on Parsons. Like I said before, it only takes one idiot to make everything unravel.

    I think we're going back and forth with the same arguments so I'll stop myself here. You're reasoning is not outlandish and I appreciate the argument we had without it getting too hostile.
     
  15. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    No, I think if both Cleveland and Charlotte offers Hayward the max, he signs with Charlotte, because;

    1. Charlotte was a playoff team and Cleveland is not.

    2. Cleveland just drafted Wiggins who plays the same position as Hayward.

    3. Cleveland has Jock Tax of 7.93%, Charlotte has Jock Tax of 7.75%, so Charlotte has less tax.
     
  16. calurker

    calurker Contributing Member

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    So uh if you were selling your house, your agent pushed you to sell to one of the bidders, but that's because the agent had an agreement with that bidder that when that bidder sells his house (to move into the home he just bought from you), he'd sell to another buyer represented by the agent who wants that house. Not cool, right? Sounds overly convuluted? You bet. Illegal? Probably, or should be if it isn't.

    So what makes you think sports agents dealing with millions and millions of dollars can get away with it? Informed consent? Why would Dwight sacrifice his own interests AND risk the NBA come down on him as well for being complicit in the conspiracy?
     
  17. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    The reason for making him a RFA is you can plan for it, especially this year.

    Ignoring Lebron and Melo, these were the above MLE free agent wings this year Deng, Ariza, Stephenson, Pierce, RFA's Parsons, Hayward

    This is next year's, Monta Ellis, RFA Klay Thompson (yes, that's actually all of them), so Parsons becomes an UFA and is literally the only player with his skillset rather than 1 of 4 or 5.

    Also Washington would have had no reason to s&t Ariza to us, such a sign and trade as they did was a "well you could sign him using space but its better for both of us to do a mutually beneficial s&t", not a "we're cool with sending him out s&t", secondly, I'd tend to guess that Dallas would rather Houston would have matched rather than give us a trade exception.
     
  18. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Not so. This is about what many folks felt was his true value including the Mavericks. In no way form or fashion was Parsons worth more money which is why so many folks here keep pointing out that he should not be paid on the level of a James Harden.

    This is pure speculation on your part in order to justify your premise that Parsons was actually worth this type of huge contract. Just because Hayward was matched at $16M does not necessarily translate that Parsons would be worth that much.

    At no point have I stated that the Rockets were incompetent. That is an assertion that you are making in order to justify your position on Morey's genius. For the record, I believe that in this case genius had nothing to do with anything. They (Rox) simply overplayed their hand with Parsons by letting him become a RFA and consequently ended up losing him when the stakes got too rich for their taste. Morey did not forsee or anticipate that Cuban & Nelson would use his own tactics against him and consequently got burned. As I posted before, Cuban was on ESPN Dallas 103.3 afterward and he outlined precisely the thought process he & Nelson followed here and a lot of what they did was based on what they knew would be Morey's response to their strategy given his (Morey's) past actions.
     
  19. backwardhead

    backwardhead Member

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    Two things. I understand what you mean when you say "got burned". I assume you meant that Morey and company didn't forsee actually loosing CP to a ridiculous contract. And on that point, only time will really tell if the Rockets management actually lost in hand of high stakes poker.

    Something else that has been brought up by another poster in a different thread. It's ironic that Morey actually treated CP like a "person" and not an "asset" by allowing him to become a RFA. At least that's how I see it.
     
  20. backwardhead

    backwardhead Member

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    And (to finish my thought) by treating CP like a "person" and not an "asset" he gets "burned."
     

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