Why MoneyBall doesn't work & other lessons learned

The problem is not the stats. Its the "intangibles" Everyone thinks we can beat the top teams with Chucks "intangibles". We can beat other teams with Battiers "intangibles". Meanwhile Chucks 6'6 frame is killing us with nearly every team and Battiers unathletic nonscoring, slow for NBA physical skills are also. They dont have the TANGIBLES for us to win. We are missing tangibles left and right. Size, strength, rebounding, defense, shotblocking, changing shots, superstar, game changer. Things that are tangible. Its the intangible players that are beating us. They are so skilled at being role players nobody wants to get rid of them because of their intangibles means we would get that tangible Superstar who doesnt play Chucks little ow devense. We would miss Battiers wuvly team spirit and good ole smile on the bench. Panzy fanbase.

 

Yao's contract runs out this season.
T-Mac's contract ran out just last year.

Maybe not 2020, but can we at least wait until their albatross contracts come off the books, and Morey can start with a clean slate?

 

Fanbase reflects team. Soft. They want 6'6 centers and thats their bar. They want the role players with a little spunk and hustle but not the dominating machine like emotionless Superstars who just win. Its cute to them to keep getting lunch pail guys and keeping them and sticking up as many as possible. Without adding the meat and potatoes get the job done and win versions. Stats are empty. Filled with intangibles. Not enough tangibles is the problem. Nothing to hang our hats on and call a system or one players team. Its a large group of guys with ever evolving gameplan that involves a massive roster. Nothing is set. Offense changes game to game and defense isnt a system or dependent upon who gets subbed in because some are bad at it than others. Which makes you rely on every single part and makes you hesitate to make moves to get rid of certain players because they in their one dimensional play add something that is missing to the other players in this system. Too easy to break us down from that standpoint.

 

When were the Rockets given the injured-player exception? I think the Rockets were planning to use their mid-level on Ariza (that's how it was reported), but in the end when they were granted the exception for Yao they used that instead to save the MLE.

Publicly, its true the Rockets maintained they had a certain figure they wanted for Gortat and wouldn't go over it. I saw that more as a negotiating tactic. I think the Rockets may very well have bumped up their offer, but other circumstances led them in a different direction (which to me turned out to be the right choice): (1) it appeared like the Magic were planning on matching the offer. (2) Ariza, a player they coveted, just became available and the Rockets need to give him their attention or risk striking out on both him and Gortat.

 

So start Hill and Williams -- lots of "tangibles" -- and bench Hayes and Battier. No more getting slowed down by the intangibles.

Why doesn't Adelman do it? He's the coach, he can play whoever he likes. I believe he's the one making the decisions on who plays, not the panzy fanbase.

 

Its not just that. Everyone knows the clutch fanbase shoots down any player movement to improve the team and keep the perpetual play of these players in their positions. There is no outcry to replace them with a true center or new SF upgrade. We dont have to be coy about that part. Its kind of accepted practice here on Battier and Hayes.

 

You are missing Robbie's point. I missed his point earlier in the thread, also.
It will take several years to replace T-Mac, that's the reason why the Rockets are bad now. We can keep using that reason, until they obtain 2 star players.

 

I thought the 3934829 threads we've had here about getting Iggy or Wallace or even freaking Thabeet would prove otherwise. But that's just me.

 

Wow, OP. You've really done a 180 from less than 3 weeks ago.

It was then that you said, and I quote,

So, to what do we owe this sudden change of heart?

 

The "clutch fanbase" thinks much less about Battier and Hayes than the Rockets coaches. And who has the bigger impact on what players are brought in? I'll go with the coaching staff.

Why don't you call out Adelman and his staff for being a bunch of pansies, instead of the nameless collection of internet posters that have a pretty wide range of opinions on the matter.

Funny how we go from a defense-oriented coaching staff (JVG) to a more up-tempo, balance-oriented staff (Adelman) -- very different coaching philosophies -- and yet both seem to value Battier and Hayes a lot. What does that tell you?

 

They get shot down everytime by the fanbase. The message is always trade but not Shane Battier or Chuck Hayes. Do your trade but give the other team just Brooks but nothing else. Its trade scenarios raping teams and losing nothing. Its unrealistic. Some people think we can get starters out of Jordan Hill, Fillers, picks, Budinger, and Patterson. They always shoot down the Battier trades or involving starters.

 

Did it work? You just made my point anyhow.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=199174

Favorite players:
Martin 19.36%
AB 16.87%
Scola 14.74%
Patterson 10.30%
Lowry 9.77%
Hayes 8.17%
Bud 5.86%
Lee 5.33%
Battier 4.80%
Hill/Ish/Twill/Jefferies/Miller 4.80%

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=199159

Battier is not a popular player here any longer. Hayes has played well at low cost, even though he's playing out of position, and does not deserve 1/10th of the scorn you give him.

 

Besides I agree on keeping Chuck Hayes. He is actually better than Battier and playing out of position. He should be the backup PF to Patrick Patterson or starting over him next to a 7 foot defensive center. Battier should be backup to a superstar or guy near star level. If not traded for one ina package. Then that Superstar or almost star play along side Martin and Lowry with Brooks as backup and Hayes and big defensive center locking down the low post. Thats not how it is seen though. Hayes and Battier ion the starting lineup together will NEVER work I dont care how many screams or cries their loyal fanbase do together on this subject for them. One or the other starting? Prefferably Chuck but not at center. Battier if you have a good scoring and defensive center. Not both.

 

I make nothing about scorn or personal. Its all basketball decision. I dont care about the Battier fanclubs feelings to protect him everytime i talk. Its just basketball truisms we need to happen to be good as a team again.

 

See, that's reasonable. And no one thinks starting Battier and Hayes is an ideal scenario. For this team, as currently constructed, it might give us our best chance to win, but that's a shame. We need to be better than that.

 

For this team? No to that also. The fanbase should just flat out say its not acceptable and we want the change. Find the center or SF that does replace one of them in the lineup. There is no outcry for that right now.

 

Battier, outside of maybe McGrady, is probably the most criticized player on the Rockets since he joined our team. I don't see this fanclub you keept talking about dominating our messageboard. Some of us appreciate certain things he does -- just like the coaches and other teams appreciate it -- but people aren't blind to his deficiencies.

 

I realize it may not involve you. You may not remember how much I was attacked by his fanclub members around the time the season started and he had zero stats and the team was losing. I called out for him to be traded or replaced and was attacked in an unusual way for a player who doesnt perform on a nightly basis by other fans. So I will leave it at that. Everywhere there is one player who is the working every man and has his cult following unjustifiably with regards to his production.

 

You're asking for stuff that isn't available. Any idiot could see we needed a legit center to groom in Yao's place even before the season started. However there were none worth taking, which is why DM bit the bullet and overpaid for Brad Miller. If what you needed was a center and KM and Hill got offered for Tmac's corpse and Landry, would you refuse the trade simply because what you needed was a center? You upgrade when you can.

Its the same thing with PP, in drafting you always get the best player available, especially if the talent difference is huge. Just because we need a center doesn't mean you pass on a talent like Patterson, you've seen the past couple of games what he can do in just his rookie year. Are you telling me we should have passed on him in the draft to get a risky player like Whiteside or extremely raw player like Sanders?

Regarding the "Fit" I guess that's where you and DM have a philosophical disagreement. DM and his staff believes you get the better players and then worry about fit later. I agree with this "collect then select" methodology, GMs are allowed to trade for pieces they need. It just takes a little more time, but the end result is much better in the long run then getting players based on fit.

In short, my problem with the criticisms on DM is that most of these are baseless complaining. "We don't have teh superstarz" or "We need a center!!!". LOL I'm sure every franchise out there wants a Lebron on the wing and a DH manning the post. Unless you can point out specifically what DM has done wrong though, I'm not sure why you should criticize him. Its not his fault Yao and Tmac were so fragile, we should be in full contender mode right now with Tmac, Yao, Scola, Brooks and Landry.