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Why MJ is still better

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by kharboosa, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    true
    Kobe has the disadvantage to come after MJ. still think MJ has better talent. Objectively.
     
  2. pacmania

    pacmania Member

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    I agree to a certain extent but it must be pointed out that Jordan played in the era of MANDATED MAN TO MAN DEFENSE. Where any semblance of a zone would be whistled for a technical foul.

    One may argue that it is much easier to read the defense when what is mandated is only man to man defense.

    If I am not mistaken the league changed the rules sometime after Allen Iverson almost single handedly brought a championship to Philly.

    I think the NBA wanted to adopt more team play and was tired of the predictable isolation plays so they instituted a rule change. Ever since that time Iverson hasn't been as dominant. The same goes for Shaq.

    Under the new rules , one player can stick to you on the perimeter while from a short distance another player is waiting for the charge in case you decide to drive.

    Under the new rules, there is a lot more leverage to play zone, and hybrid man to man , and zone defenses so its more difficult to read the defense.

    But I agree so far no one has matched Jordan's consistency , you could expect it night in and night out from MJ.
     
  3. rn_xw

    rn_xw Member

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    Jordan's dynasty bulls should've won 12 straight in today's NBA.
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Jordan is the best player ever in my opinion, but I don't agree with the OP's argument. The Bulls won 55 games in 1994 without Michael Jordan. And they didn't add a significant player to replace Jordan that year.

    If Kobe retired today, and Jackson continued to coach the team, how many games do people think they could win?
     
  5. adoo

    adoo Member

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    you have no idea what ur talking about.

    the era of the GREATEST NBA centers was the '60s and '70s, at a time when such all-time greatest Russell, Chamberlain, Thurmond, Addul Jabbar were in their primes.

    Mssr. Russell, Chamberlain, Addul Jabbar would take the likes of such 2nd-tier HoF center as ewing, robinson and shaq to lunch anytime of the day. Dream is the only center in MJ's era that compares to these pre-eminent centers; Malone was even not a center
     
  6. adoo

    adoo Member

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    what rule would that be????
     
  7. v3.0

    v3.0 Member

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    Toni Kukoc came to the Bulls when Jordan first retired. Not saying he was a replacement for Jordan, but he helped ease the scoring load from Pippen. And his versatility made him the perfect 6th man which he was for the 2nd 3-peat Bulls teams, which Odom mirrors that capacity in today's Lakers.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Rocketboi

    Rocketboi Member

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    coming from probably the biggest kobe fan on this site...
    i know jordan will always be better, but all i want is for people to give kobe the respect he deserves. he is a top 5 player of all time, quit hating, so what if he complains so does everyone else. he was immature, so was everyone else. point is he loves the game, probably more than anyone has ever loved it. his dedication and love for basketball is amazing and i admire that. i mean talk all the ***** you want, but just give credit where credit is due.
     
  9. pacmania

    pacmania Member

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    The illegal defense rule. If you notice during the michael jordan era, there were an inordinate number of illegal defense calls. Because the rules prohibited zone defenses at the time.

    There is now the defensive three second rule where you are allowed to play zone as long as you don't stay in the three second zone without guarding anybody.

    In essence, you can play zone outside the shaded area. I heard some call it the charles barkley rule, barkley during his older years, would dribble at the post with one hand for quite some time at the same time using his other hand to point out to the refs that the opposing team was playing zone.
     
  10. mau

    mau Member

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    I don't think it's even close. Kobe actually lost some ground with these finals.
    You will never see Jordan shooting 25% on a game 7 in the finals (needless to say Jordan NEVER played a game 7 in the finals)
    Kobe also had twice as many TOs (4) as assists (2)

    He got bailed out by his teammates this game, mostly a bigger stronger and deeper frontline that dominated the boards.

    Kobe played 7 finals, won 5 lost 2. Two MVPs.

    I still think Magic is the greatest Laker.
     
  11. adoo

    adoo Member

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    why have you attributed this rule change to Iverson, as if he alone caused the change. :confused:
     
  12. Rocketboi

    Rocketboi Member

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    your kidding right? i think you lack knowledge. how are gasol odom and fisheer better than rodman and pippen.
     
  13. adoo

    adoo Member

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    you're impressed w he D on Allen/Hondo/Pierce.

    Game 7 was one ugle game; Lakers' (nomally not a consisently good D team) D won the game.
     
  14. pacmania

    pacmania Member

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    I did not attribute it to Iverson, I'm saying if memory serves me right it happened around that time after he almost won a championship.

    Its much more difficult to dominate a zone defense than a man to man defense which is what the iversons and other ball hogs found out..

    There were a lot of factors that led to the rule change primarily the league wanted to see more team play and more passing.

    Shaq probably had something to do with that also, as Shaq claimed the league changed the rules because of him.
     
  15. StonesRunIt

    StonesRunIt Member

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    Jordans team was faaaaar greater than the Lakers

    Including himself, the team had 3 hall of famers, in their prime with Ron Harper to boot who averaged 20pts a game before becoming a Bull.

    Oh and as far as "presence in the middle" that team had a rotation of 3 seven footers and a pf that averaged at one time 18reb a game.

    They were longer than the Lakers are given credit for being.... there is a reason Jordan didnt lose a finals game, he had a historic team.
     
  16. Mr. Space City

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    i know for a fact that a lot of teams , mainly the pistons got away with a lot of zone.
     
  17. StonesRunIt

    StonesRunIt Member

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    they did not zone at all, they were quick to abandon their man for fast help, nothing like the loading up Kobe or other stars see.
     
  18. Mr. Space City

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    <object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-tXwAhMVb1Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-tXwAhMVb1Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>
     
  19. pacmania

    pacmania Member

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    If we're talking about the chauncey billups pistons, they were playing during the new zone era.

    I don't know much about the Isaiah thomas pistons, but I do know that you didn't see the type of swarming defense we see today back then because primarily it was an illegal defense, and you risked a costly technical foul.

    You're allowed to double team and help in a man to man defense setting but its easier to read the defense and who's open because well its man to man. Whoever the man helping is assigned to guard is open.
     
  20. Bojangles

    Bojangles Contributing Member

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    Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Nicely said.
     

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