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Why Lakers may never win under Kobe?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by chenjy9, May 12, 2009.

  1. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    I agree the comparisons should stop.

    But hey even Jordan needed a Pippen to have team success.
     
  2. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    No, it doesn't. Shaq won a title in 2006 without Kobe. Therefore, it stands to reason that Kobe may need Shaq to win, but Shaq doesn't necessarily need Kobe.
     
  3. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    And who did Shaq win one with? Dwayne Wade who happens to be one of the best players in the NBA.
     
  4. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    Unless I'm not picking up on your sarcasm -- you do know the Lakers have four max contract players and are arguably the most talented team in basketball, right?
     
  5. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Yes, he won with Wade. What's your point? Shaq won with Wade and without Kobe. So clearly,
     
  6. cson

    cson Contributing Member

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    Did you actually mean irresponsible? If so, How? Like, Christ man, think of the children! ?
     
  7. cson

    cson Contributing Member

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    Not to derail, but is this true? WTF for?
     
  8. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    You do realize that Gasol puts up near Yao numbers right?

    Pau Gasol
    08-09: 18.9 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.0 bpg, 0.567 fg
    Career: 18.8 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1.7 bpg, 0.520 fg
    Yao Ming
    08-09: 19.7 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.0 bpg, 0.548 fg
    Career: 19.1 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.9 bpg, 0.525 fg

    Gasol is about as soft as Yao Ming, but a fair bit quicker since he is substantially smaller (about 6" and 60 lbs smaller) than Yao. Both are finesse players, which makes people call them soft.
     
  9. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    One could argue that Wade was and is a lot crappier than Kobe at that time since he was still so young. Also, Wade seems to be a much better persona and teammate than Kobe. I don't believe Shaq has ever dissed Wade and considering that Shaq controls his mouth about as well as one controls a derailed train, that is saying something.
     
  10. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Haha ,

    here you go:
    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=132939
    the irony is that they wanted Yao to play ALOT of minutes, contrary to the Yao fan of today who wants Yao to play LESS minutes.

    Poor Larry, they didn't have to make fun of his teeth and he is black :rolleyes:

    http://nba.sports.tom.com/2007-07-30/0424/85274537.html

    Special correspondent Zhu Jun reporting from Guangzhou

    Larry Smith, the acting head coach of the Houston Rockets in Yao Ming’s rookie season. With an obvious slit between his 2 front teeth, this black and big guy had been labeled as the Number 1 YOH(Yao Hei/Hater)amongst all Chinese fans all these years, due to the fact that he did not give Yao Ming sufficient play minutes then.
     
    #50 tinman, May 12, 2009
    Last edited: May 12, 2009
  11. mazyar

    mazyar Member

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    Sure they are max players. But they don't play like max players in the playoffs. Just look at Bynum for example. Landry and even Chuck Hayes have played much better than Bynum and they earn half as much.
    I do realize that. I already mentioned that Gasol is a great regular season player. But he has shown last year and so far in this playoffs that he plays soft and not in full force.

    I guess you could argue that it is Kobe's fault that he is not getting the best out of his team. I dont know what tactics he or Phil Jackson use to get their guys pumped up in the locker room. But on the court he tries to pass the ball around. His teamates have just been disappointing him.
     
  12. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Well my original point that you quoted said "The Lakers would not win those 3 titles if Kobe was not on those teams", then you responded with the Wade thing which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
     
  13. vinsensual

    vinsensual Member

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    Its the TMAC effect: No matter how good you do personally in the playoffs, losing (or not winning in this case) is placed on your star or captain, even if fault belongs to your teammates for not stepping up.

    For a couple years, Kobe's been their leader, and is the veteran of the team. He wouldnt have won MVP if he was not making his teammates better, so you can't argue that hes not a leader. Is he a good one? That's the unknown, because I know hes requested to be traded a few times already and I wouldnt want to follow that kind of guy.
     
  14. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Wow this image is great. Do you mind if I steal it?
     
  15. drowsy11

    drowsy11 Member

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    this is one of the DUMBEST things i have ever read
     
  16. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    It depends on your argument. I interpreted your scenario under the impression that if Kobe weren't on the team, then there would be another all-star caliber player in his stead.

    It appears as if you're just talking about removing Kobe from that Laker roster entirely and saying they wouldn't be as successful. If that's the case, that's one of the most r****ded arguments I've ever heard.

    Which interpretation did you mean to project?
     
  17. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    This is silly. Kobe doesn't necessarily need Shaq to win those rings, just as Shaq didn't necessarily need Kobe to win either. What they both needed were another complementary franchise player. It could have been anyone back there, substitute Duncan or Hakeem for Shaq and you'd probably still have your three peat. In the same way, substitute prime Tmac or Jordan for Kobe and you'd still have three rings for Shaq. They were both responsible for their rings, although if you look at contributions Shaq contributed more because he was the most dominant c at the time while Kobe was just coming into his own.

    Back to topic:

    Its silly to say Lakers will never win with Kobe because he doesn't have leadership skills. What will you say if they win the championship this year? That Kobe suddenly became a team leader? lol
     
  18. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Then you're misunderstanding it. Let me dumb it down a little for you.

    Shaq was one of the most dominating forces the league had ever seen. This is why he was able to win a championship with an all-star swingman.

    Kobe is one of the best shooting guards the league has ever seen, but he's not as dominant as Shaq. This is why he was unable to win last year with Gasol.

    Keep in mind this is a simplified summary of things.
     
  19. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    I'll put this in terms of Batman & Robin.

    Shaq needed a Robin to win.

    Kobe needed a Batman.
     
  20. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    You're right that Bynum (Odom too) have sucked in the playoffs. Still, the talent is there. Maybe if Kobe knew how to make his teammates better or was vocal enough to call these guys out and challenge them to step up this wouldn't be a problem? Unless, of course, you want to blame Odom/Bynum's underachieving on the best coach in NBA history?
     

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