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Why Lakers may never win under Kobe?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by chenjy9, May 12, 2009.

  1. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Basically for any team to win it all, they have to be anchored and united in every sense of the word. Taking a look back at every team that has ever won a championship, we see a very common trend; all of them have had a polarizing force that not only was the focal driving point on offense but the undeniable leader that the rest of the team will follow to the moon without space suits. Some examples are:

    - Detroit Bad Boys: Isaiah Thomas was a hard nosed and rugged defender who had firm reigns on the rest of his bully team.

    - Chicago Bulls: Jordan led by example and was very outspoken in a positive way. Pushed his entire team past their normal limits through sheer willpower after he embraced he concept of team basketball. He also developed to be a great defender as well.

    - Clutch City Rockets: Hakeem Olajuwon was a leader in offense, defense, and the locker room. When the big guy spoke, everyone quieted down to listened.

    - Celtics w/ Larry Bird: Not only could the dude shoot lights out from damn near anywhere on the court, he had a no nonsense blue collared worker personality. This guy was disciplined and rugged as well as a great leader

    - Lakers w/ Magic: Magic made players better through his court vision and sunny disposition. His presence alone on the court, regardless of position allows every player to play MUCH better than they would anywhere else. People would follow him on the fact alone that if you hung with Magic, you are going to look good on the court.

    - Celtics with KG: The guy is passionate, intense, and hard working. He is also very vocal. Every teammate that has played with KG has had no beef with him and every team he plays with seem to play on a higher level. He has always been the heart and soul of every team. Pity the Wolves were so crappy...

    Point is, as great a player that Kobe is and as tough as he mentally is, he is just not looking like the type of player that can lead and unite the Lakers as a cohesive championship force. Talent wise, we all know that the Lakers are probably the best and deepest team right now. However, with a history of throwing teammates under the bus and a just recent infant grasp of team play, I really cannot see Kobe taking the team under his wing.
     
  2. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Kobe is way too arrogant and proud to be a natural motivator and leader. He leads in stats, but not in poise.
     
  3. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I just can't help but think about how much we would be absolutely destroying this league if we were fully healthy...

    *sigh*

    Oh well, it's all just gonna make it that much sweeter.
     
  4. rocketman5803

    rocketman5803 Member

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    he is not MJ ,he can't make his teammates better !
     
  5. Vinsanity

    Vinsanity Contributing Member

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    If the Celtics hadn't traded for Garnett and got Ray Allen, you would have never made this thread. The Celtics last year were dominant, and STACKED. Otherwise, its safe to say that Kobe and the Lakers would have won the championship. And don't forge, Kobe does have 3 rings already and he played a huge role during those 3 ring seasons.

    To say the Lakers will never "win it all" without Kobe is pretty irresponsible.
     
  6. Prince

    Prince Member

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  7. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    - Celtics would not have won without KG. We see that this year how badly they are performing without KG to anchor them down
    - I don't deal with what could have happened, because it did not... case closed. Only idiots dwell over spilt milk.
    - Kobe had a huge role... yes. No one is denying that he had a huge role. However, Kobe was not the leader of the Lakers when they won their rings. If you even read my post you will get that. Shaq was the leader of the team and when they wanted to give Kobe the role, they shipped Shaq off.
    - Kobe's three rings came when he teamed up with the most dominant center of his era. How many rings has the guy won since Shaq left? I will give you a hint... the number is the same as the number of times TMac has gotten past the first round.
    - I made a prediction and stated it as an opinion. How the hell is that irresponsible? If you cannot respond to the post without being childish and insulting, I suggest you STFU and leave.
     
  8. levintblack

    levintblack Contributing Member

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    The Celtics DID get those guys. Plus if KG wasn't traded to Boston he would have likely been traded to some other contending team that would have been capable of beating the Lakers. This is all without mention of whether or not the Cavs could have beat the Lakers.

    Your pretty irresponsible to not think of all the obvious situations.
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    The Rockets had many vocal leaders.
    Mario Elie
    Maxwell
    Drexler
    Kenny
    Rudy T
    Cassell

    The role players on those Rocket teams were the best role players in nba history
    just look at Cassell and Horry

    Cassell came off the bench for us.
     
  10. Jerry36

    Jerry36 Member

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    I'll remember this thread when the Lakers win the championship this year.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. tiggerme

    tiggerme Member

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    actually kobe is a very skilled tough players in the league, he has made great progress leading lakers to a high position, unfortunately last year they missed the champion agaist celitc, but the most important point is that we shouldnot ignore his achievment in recent years.aithough he has the shortcoming in his character, no one could stop his scoring when kobe has the desire to shoot. in my opinion, it is difficlut for him to be a great players in the league, at least he can become the one who can finish the game when team needs his scoring, that's enough for him.
     
  12. Vinsanity

    Vinsanity Contributing Member

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    What will you say if the Lakers win it all this year? That Pau Gasol was a dominant center and that the NBA rigged the champtionship by giving that trade to the Lakers? :rolleyes: You won't give Kobe credit even if he does win it, so what's the point of even debating about it? Your mind is made up.

    Do you realize that Kobe brought his team to the finals last year and made it out of the west in the toughest conference in NBA history?
     
  13. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    So you don't agree that the Dream was the undisputed leader who unified the entire team on the court?
     
  14. Vinsanity

    Vinsanity Contributing Member

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    If they win it this year, it will because they have a stacked team with the great Pau Gasol. The NBA rigged the trade and stern wants Kobe in the finals, blah blah, bla blah blah blah.
     
  15. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    I am saying that I do not believe they will ever win it under Kobe with Kobe s a leader. He simply does not draw people together and runs a one many show most of the time. You are also trying to put words in my mouth. When did I ever say I will never give Kobe credit. I am only backing up my PREDICTION with facts. If he does become a true leader then I will be the first to eat my words and congratulate the b*stard on a job will done.

    As it stands, Kobe has not proven he can be a leader and take his people to the trophy since Shaq left. It doesn't matter if they been to the finals or not. What I am looking at is if Kobe has the characteristics or not to be the great leader that all championship teams had.
     
  16. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    he was the best player on the court, but that was a more balanced team than many give credit too.

    for example:

    94, Rockets down 0-2, Phoenix led the Rockets in game 3 at half time. Phoenix was playing good D on Dream, so Vernon Maxwell decides to upload 35 points on them.

    95 Utah game 5, Clyde Drexler decides to impose his defense and got key steals and buckets to help the rockets win

    95 Orlando, Kenny Smith takes Penny to school, dropping 7 3s.

    I can go on and on. Sam Cassell in the NBA Finals vs the Knicks, Robert Horry vs the Spurs and Magic and Suns

    Rudy T was a great motivator and emotional leader

    The Rockets of the 90s were the best example of teamwork

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YZUlzVoBqhM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YZUlzVoBqhM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  17. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    This a dumb argument. Was Hakeem a scrub until he won? Why did he win? Cause he had very good role players around him. Remember choke city?

    The lakers lost because the celtics were better not because of kobe's lack of leadership.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    you mean if they even know the story of choke city.

    or if they knew the Rockets with Dream playing with Buck Johnson and Sleepy Floyd (still good enough to beat the Bulls)

    this is just a blanket statement for the Rockets of the 90s, it was just DREAM.

    Having watch this year's Rockets beat the Lakers without Tmac/Yao should show people how important TEAM is.

    they don't know:
    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qxe2ky6MkXk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qxe2ky6MkXk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    or they don't know:
    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EeDe810yZls&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EeDe810yZls&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    don't ASSUME, KNOW.
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Nice thread.

    [​IMG]

    DD
     
  20. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    And the Lakers would not have won those 3 Championships if Kobe was not on the team. So it goes both ways. Either way the guy has won 3 championships.
     

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