While I'm sure you can find examples of people who have broken the law in the financial world and gotten away with it, I'm equally certain you could likewise find examples of people that have smoked up, had sex with minors, or sent their kids to a different school than they were zoned for without going to jail, probably a lot more of the second group than the first. Sometimes you get caught and sent to jail, sometimes you get caught and work a deal, sometimes you don't get caught. That doesn't change the fact that breaking the law is what got all of them sent to jail. Nor does it change the fact that people have been sent to prison for breaking securities laws, or maybe you have never heard of Bernie Madoff. Just because some financial criminals get away with it, that is no reason for all other criminals to be let off.
In a world of limitless resources, this would make sense. But when you lack the funds, personnel, and time to go after everyone, there should be priorities from the FBI/police standpoint. The problem people have is that they don't go hard after these people. Because they spend their time caring about moms trying to get their kids into better schools and Micheal Vick's dog-fight ring.
Madoff got jailed because he ripped off rich people, which apparently is the wrong side of the track to tread. Now listen. Dude, did you read the article? I guess not. You keep on quibbling over law-breakers and all that, and we could have a lively debate over a system that criminalizes the inhalation or the intake of substances that are much less harmless then some legal substances available (for a quick trip, check out salvia-perfectly legal) or two minors having sexual relations or etc. over letting people go scot-free for destroying the lives of millions, but this isn't even the central issue I'm digging at right now. The fact is, if you read the article, CEOs are DOING ILLEGAL THINGS THAT THE SEC IS AWARE OF. The reason why they're not being caught is because the SEC is being willfully negligent because the SEC and the companies they regulate are two sides of the same coin. Now, come on, you will argue with me that we can't let criminals go right? The standard conservative/prison state line of no amnesty for law-breakers? Well, consider this. What if, instead of looking for people who are smuggling drugs, the DEA was staffed by individuals who were once drug dealers, and who are close friends with current drug dealers, and who decide, when cases of evident crime are given to them, to willfully ignore them until the statute of limitations passed? I assume, based on your above logic, that you'd be outraged. This is what is happening with Wall Street.
The departments that go after financial criminals are not the same ones that go after moms sending their kids to the wrong schools or dog fighters. In some cases they are not even funded by the same governments. A mom who defrauds a school district is busted by the local PD. That is municipal. She is then prosecuted by the DA, that is State. Vick I think was taken down by local PD. Wall street is regulated by the SEC and prosecuted in Federal Court. That is Federal. No SEC resources are used in the other crimes. How about Ken Lay or Jeff Skilling? The WorldCom people? There are many people who have gone down for financial crimes. I am all for changing laws, but not for ignoring lawbreakers in the interim. Some of them get away with it, some don't same as in any other type of crime. You know how to be (reasonably) sure to avoid going to jail? Don't commit crimes.
Madoff didn't just rip off a bunch of rich people, there were pension funds invested with him. Madoff went to jail because he commited a crime and got caught. I don't want to be in a position of defendind wall street but no need for the conspicracy theories.
Honestly, read the article. I really do think you will be outraged if you believe that we shouldn't ignore lawbreakers, since that is what the SEC apparently does. The thing is, your logic simply doesn't apply because for Wall Street since the rules are different. For them, to be reasonably sure to avoid going to jail, they just have to talk to the cable of former SEC employees they now have on the payroll, and the nice head of enforcement that offers to help protect them from the wrath of the DOJ. As for Enron and Worldcom, those two burst at the same time, and apparently they do not enjoy the same benefits of well, having former employees of their regulatory agency working for them.
well, Madoff got 150 years for willingly defrauding individuals and actually losing...$18-20 billion? That is quite a chunk of change. But let's see what happens when Wall Street is caught lying. WTF? These individuals hid $40 billion in losses and got a grand total of zero days in jail. How does this make any sense? well, actually it does. Now, we all know the Obama Administration is propped up by these big banks, so I don't expect that to change anytime soon even though there's been populist rumblings to try to, I cynically assume, "silence the rabble." so, what can I say? we are at the mercy of the almighty dollar
northside I've just finished reading the piece, I agree that the world of wall street and the regulators is a closed world that has too many friends policing each other. that's the major problem. everyone has riches at stake so no one wants to rock the boat. 40 billions in "liabilities" not losses, and that's the problem, this is a lot of subjectivness. for example, watching 60 minutes on the crisis there was a doctor who turned private investor in 03. he bet against the sub prime mortgage bonds and made a bunch of money. he said if anyone actually read the disclosure statements you knew the bonds were crappy.
Lol @ this kid acting like he's speaking on behalf of the actual moneymakers. Northside Storm knows what he's talking about. Pgabriel chiming in with his usual homoerotic uninformed devil's advocate I'm a female who needs everything to be fair shennanigans... I'm surprised a lot of you guys have the patience to deal with him. What we need is an idealistic billionaire who instead of donating 98% to charity, financially backs up the SEC and makes the big corporations a lot less seductive with lure of money and titles. They also need to start a propaganda media campaign: Only Real Americans work for the SEC. Give it a rugged, bad boy appeal like Westerns and cowboys. This is how you make change when everyone is a victim of capitalism. Values that make people feel "above the system".
As long as the market pays better than the regulator, nothing will change. The brightest minds will be in Wall Street, and the next best in the SEC.
I don't really think that's the problem. I used to think that was the problem, I don't agree with everything in the article, however I do agree that its probably to chummy of a world.
Believe me it's a big problem. The reason they're chummy IMO is because the SEC is like the NBDL and Wall Street is like the NBA. They're more like fans hoping for a job.
It appears clear from the article that Wall Street CEOs and the supposed oversight people committed a number of crimes (the SEC folks should mostly be sacked for being negligent in their duties - the wealthy ****heads from the companies should be in prison). It goes beyond the question of "Did they commit crimes?" to the larger concern: How did their crimes effect American society? The negligence of the regulators and the greed of the profit whores tanked the entire ******* economy - most of the people in the country right now are suffering in some way from the crimes committed on Wall Street. The majority of the people in this country were hurt in some way by the crimes committed on Wall Street. But the wealthy criminals ... the criminals are still flying in private jets, still have nannies taking care of their private-schooled children, still have extended vacations in Europe, still have enough money and symbols of status to attract women, and still have millions of dollars in the bank. The regulators and the profit whores took a giant dump on this country, and then they used our faces to wipe with. And they're still living the high life. If that's not a giant "HEY AMERICA - **** YOU!" then I don't know what is. I would argue that the fitting punishment for a crime is commensurate with the damage that crime does to society. These guys, these wealthy pieces of human excrement, should all be in prison for the rest of their lives. But they're not. You, on the other hand, could easily be sent to jail tomorrow for forgetting about a traffic fine.
