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Why is Wilt Chamberlain overlooked?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by JW86, Aug 29, 2021.

  1. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    That's why these guys were out of the league in no time.
     
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  2. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    If the WWF were in their Golden Age during Wilt's prime, he would have made better money as a choreographed wrestler. His strength was uncanny to go along with his size domination.
     
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  3. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    I remember in the 90s in elementary school, Wilt was considered the GOAT, and Jordan was laughed at because he only had one ring... but as people that remembered seeing him fading away... and Wilt was not a staple of national media...
     
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  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    He's overlooked due to the weak level of competition he faced. He was a big fish in a mud puddle.

    The players who were great at a time when the NBA was more competitive will be praised over the guy who was the best player at a time where NBA teams were filled with players less talented than some YMCA pick up games today.

    It's the same for a lot of sports when it comes to stars from back in the infancy of the league. You can praise them for what they did in their era, but it's ridiculous to put them over players who dominated at a time when the league was more competitive. Babe Ruth was an amazing pitcher and hitter at a time when baseball was full of dock workers and school teachers, but if we're being serious, he wouldn't be fit to hold Barry Bonds' jockstrap.
     
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  5. photojoe

    photojoe Member

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    Level of competition seems to be the most common reason why his stats are somewhat overlooked.

    Of course, different eras of basketball have been widely different, almost different sports. With that said, if it was purely based on lack of competition, how come Bill Russell's numbers aren't also similarly ridiculous? Or George Mikan's? If it was just that the competition was so weak, wouldn't those guys put up numbers that were also ridiculous, even if not to the same extreme?

    Bill Russell is widely considered one of the best defensive players to ever play. Yet in 94 games head to head against Russell (which includes games later in their careers past their primes) Wilt averaged 30 points, 28.2 rebounds and 3.8 assists. Against one of the best defenders ever.

    Of course, every player is part of a product of the era they came up in. The training was different. The emphasis on athletic careers was different. The style of the game itself was different - emphasis on big men vs guards, emphasis on post play vs three pointers etc. No player can control those things or can control what other players they are going against. They can control how much they dominate the game and the competition that they do go up against, and for me, Wilt displayed that more than just about anyone else ever.
     
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  6. photojoe

    photojoe Member

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    Of course not.

    But if you are trying to compare players who played nearly 100 years apart, you can't compare them 1 to 1. You can't say "well if you took Babe Ruth and put him in today's MLB" or "if Barry Bonds played in the 1920s he would have gotten even more home runs". Because honestly, who knows? Baseball was full of dock workers and school teachers precisely because of the entire era around that time- when most baseball players may have had to be dock workers and teachers to support themselves and baseball was just a side gig. This influenced how much money, how much training, *cough how much steroids cough*, how much emphasis was put on the game from the player's entire life.

    In my opinion, any time you are trying to compare players from wildly different eras of their respective games, you have to do it comparatively to their time, not in a direct head to head competition. So, Babe Ruth compared to the MLB of his day- was he a more dominant and influential player over that time frame than Barry Bonds was during his play? Was Wilt Chamberlain more dominant, influential and game changing over the NBA of the 60's than Shaq was of the 90's and 2000's? Otherwise, there are way too many confounding variables that creates an unfair comparison
     
  7. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Exactly. I've been saying this for a long time. It's like judging Jesse Owens against Usain Bolt's standard, or better yet, judging Aristotle's physics against Einstein's. Progress always gives later people the advantage in the absolute sense. But you have to measure greatness relative to its own historical context.
     
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  8. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    i mean... i could prolly play in the nba in the 40s too. amirite or wat?
     
  9. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Did they even have the technology to keep your dad's sperms in a container on the bench?
     
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  10. kubli9

    kubli9 Contributing Member
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    Best part of this thread is where all the people pretended like they were alive to watch Wilt.
     
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  11. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Agree. I've always said that the only people that should teach and talk about the Civil War are people who lived it. And don't get me started about Ancient Egypt ...
     
  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Wasn't overlooked by the other gender.
     
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  13. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Aliens
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    While it's true that they dominated leagues devoid of talent, I think you have to keep that in mind when comparing them to better players who were less dominant vs considerably better competition.

    I was more dominant in little league than either Bonds or Ruth....but it doesn't mean I was a better player. Dominating scrubs is awesome, but it's not going to put you ahead of better players who played against legitimate competition.

    The NBA of the 50's and 60's might as well have been middle school basketball compared to the NBA 30 or 40 years later.
     
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  15. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    Nobody knew who Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Wes, or Kareem Jabbar were when I was in elementary school back late 80s early 91. They only knew Jordan, Bird and Magic.
     
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  16. kubli9

    kubli9 Contributing Member
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    People acting like they were watching Wilt and Russell on league pass. :D
     
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  17. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    Wilt 7'2

    Opposing C 6'4

    Dude was playing against PJ Tucker every night.


    Ok - it is a caricature, but it is a reason he gets overlooked
     
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  18. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    As others have mentioned obviously you cannot reasonably compare players across different eras. Maybe, at most, like in a 20-30 year time frame, but it gets super tricky after that. Also, there are things, like training, player accommodations, team structure, league progress, and etc.

    For Wilt, I'll say that he is arguably the best, like MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, or Kobe.

    In his favor:
    1. He has most of the individual records than most other players. He also dominated his competition, like no other player. People will say that he played against undersized guys/vastly inferior players, which is somewhat misleading. That era produced another of really good to great big men, but none of them could dominate, like Wilt could.

    2. Many older NBA players and coaches who have been around the game for awhile, believed he was and still is the best player.

    3. Competition from later eras/his era-- Are pretty competitive to players in much later eras of the NBA. From my own perspective, there are very few players who I think would do very well or be very competitive against him, beyond say Kareem, Olajuwon, Shaq, Malone (not the one from the Jazz ;)), and that's pretty much it. I feel like he would win against most of those players as well, in one-on-one scenarios. Kareem and Olajuwon would give him the toughest challenge or beat him. I might give slight chance to Robinson, Ewing, Duncan, Yao, Dwight, Thurmond, and maybe Embiid, mainly because they all either have the size to match their skills and are fairly athletic. Lanier and Parrish, I'm not quite as sure.

    Wallace, Mutombo, Camby, Eaton, and even Rodman are all great defenders, but I cannot see them slowing Wilt down a whole lot, and most of them are not threats on offense whatsoever. He almost be well-rested from not having to work on defense. I've seen much lesser players do well against all four, so he'd have his way with most of them.

    3B. Measurables/Skills -- Are pretty comparable to everyone I just mention. He's arguably as fast and agile, at worst, but faster and agile at best. He's arguably the strongest of all of these players. What makes him the most deadly is his basketball skills. He's a pretty well-rounded player without his physique and athleticism in question. He has few nifty basketball moves, with a little jumper, and one of the greatest passing big men in NBA history.

    I feel like in modern era, he would certainly be able to fine tune his game in alot of ways, and with alot of modern techniques and rule changes. I think he'd be able to adapt, pretty well.


    Works against him

    1. Championship count: Only 2. Championships are not the end-all to be all, because of the full aspect of a team nature. You have to have the best team to win, not only the best player. I think he'd end up with about the same, if he played in later eras, especially if he ends up on mediocre teams. Again, this is really out of his control for the most part unless does the Lebron thing and recruit other superstars. Which would work in his favor, historically.

    2. Competition: As much as this works in his favor, it also works against him. In his time, center position was superbly top heavy with about five or six exceptional guys, like Russell, Bellamy, Reed, and few others. It takes quite nose-dive in talent after the men I just mention, those bottom half starters and many reserves would not be able to play in the NBA from the 80s til now. There's no way they'd be able to make even a G-League roster. They are far too slow, unathletic, and don't possess too many basketball skills. Just watch the film on some of these players and compare them to the bottom half starting centers or reserve centers of today within the last 20-25 years. You'll start to see a very stark difference.

    3. Poor FT shooter -- Even in a modern era, I don't see him improving in any later era, too much. I don't think he'd be as motivated to improve in this era unless a coach and management really pressed him about it. They would be very dicey, if they are winning (mainly because of him), but he becomes a FA at some point. I could see the media eating him, alive over this.

    3. Perceived as selfish/uncoachable: This one is very hard to judge, because he's not here to defend himself. But, some of his coaches were very critical of him, as was a few other players. Would he be able to fit into a really good team, during the early stages of his career. He'd be drafted to a team that is not very good, so he would mostly be counted on to score alot. Would become reluctant to play wing players, especially ones who don't like to pass to often or take too many shots. Though, I feel like he'd work almost optimally with a player, like Beard, LeBron, or CP3. They'd be able to get him the ball in his most efficient spots, while also be able to play off of him to get easy buckets for themselves and other teammates. I believe Wilt would sacrifice alot of scoring numbers to win many more games and championship. Again if he ends up on team with players, like that, who are great passer and exceptional play makers, he'd get more titles. Probably not 11, like Russell, but definitely in 5-8 range.
     
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  19. Rock Block

    Rock Block Sorta here sometimes
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    I'm not sure this "overlooking" is a thing with Wilt. Maybe its just older guys that consider him more often then the more recent younger generations? I never saw Wilt play, I was four when he retired in 74 but he's in my top 5-10 all-time.
     
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  20. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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