Please elaborate. You basically said the same things about Christianity I have also been saying (even the stuff about Islam being on a different timeline). Are you just lumping me in?
Please, cherry pick a quote where Jesus or his apostles command, endorse or approve of violence, rape, murder or theft. No it hasn't. 1. Just because there is moss on the rock, doesn't make it part of the rock... Whilst crusades may have been fought with a cross on the shield, there is not one scripture or command from Christ that can be used to justify 'killing in the name of Jesus'. The crusades were a politically motivated battle to ensure safe passage to and from the holy lands. Just out of curiosity, who do you think the travellers needed protection from? 2. Muslim terrorists still manage to kill more innocent people every 12 months than the Spanish Inquisition did in 350 years. Henningsen-Contreras statistics for the period 1540–1700...Place the numbers of those executed between 826 and 1303. (Since you like history so much...) Compare that to Quran 33:25-27*...After the Battle of the Trench in March 627. Muhammad imposed the ultimate penalty on the men in the Jewish clan called Qurayzah. The sentence: death by decapitation for around 600 men (one Islamic source says 900) and enslavement for the women and children. Not bad for a days work? 3. We are discussing a violent actions that took place last week, and is a continuing problem in modern society...and you bring up battles that took place nearly 1000 years ago...hardly relevant. Once again, this is mans distortion of doctrine to suit a particular view, not the true Christian Doctrine. Argument invalid. Is this real? Who is it that is oppressing the Christian Sudanese? Mathloom faints! Exactly. in other words, they have been indoctrinated with traditional 'Islamic' anti western values that cause them to become violent at any perceived insult. Thank you for agreeing with me. No, most Christians are peaceful because Jesus told us to turn the other cheek, love our neighbours, pray for those that persecute you and do unto others as you would have them do unto you...that was Christ's message for us to follow. No luck involved. Muslims are encouraged to read the Bible for guidance, light and understanding...and the Quran was sent down to confirm the Bible. If they followed Jesus's messages do you think that this violent behaviour would be taking place? Agree, liberals shouldn't be afraid to criticise Islam. I think that you should learn a bit more about your history, my young Padawan. Facts are facts. You can't argue with the truth. In other news from Turkey... http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ma...lage-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=30133&NewsCatID=341 Duck jihad... Police forces detained the man following complaints from his inlaws, who claimed he had raped one of their ducks during an overnight stay in their house.* The man’s father-in-law said he found “feathers and blood”*in a bed with the duck.*The duck was “unable to walk,” according to the father-in-law. The man’s mother-in-law told daily Habertürk she later discovered the man’s bloody shirt by a tree the next morning.* The 50 year-old suspect denied all accusations, calling them all “slander.”*The duck was found to have suffered deformation and damage to its intestines and underwent several operations. It is now reportedly in good condition and remains in a veterinarian’s care...
The notion that only the new testament matters to Christian practice is totally insane. You're argument is that Islam sparks extremism and that's bad. Agreed. I pointed to examples where Christianity sparked extremism. Regardless of where it was found in the Bible, it did, and it caused violence, even if under a political pretext. Also, to point to all of the religious conflict in Europe and just assert "Not Christianity just politics lol!" is nothing short of laughable. Yes, politics play a role, just like they play a role in Islamic extremism. You think all Islamic extremists are motivated by religion? Osama Bin Laden was motivated by politics. And just like the crusades utilized people by pulling on their religious intuitions, so too does Islamic extremism. Politics also played a role when the Bible was formed to be a tool of oppression against women and other minorities (go ahead and read up on the Council of Nicea and the Ecumenical Councils.) I agree with your argument that religion sparks extremism which can lead to violence. I do not agree with your argument that Christianity is exempt from this. Oh, and for fun: Matthew 10:14-15 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Matthew 10:34-37 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Mark 7:9-10 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. I could go on and on, and include hundreds of pages worth of quotes from the old testament. Oh yeah remember Paul? He seemed to endorse the Old Testament, as do so many Christians (didn't you yourself use Paul in my homosexuality and Christianity thread?) So yeah, Christianity doesn't grant you a moral high horse. All religion from the Judeo-Christian philosophy has, can, and will continue to spark violence and extremism. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise.
And to clarify my statement about Iran being one of the only middle-Eastern countries with a young educated populace, I meant extremist countries prone to the type of violence you're talking about (excluding UAE, Turkey etc. etc.)
I want to focus on this quote... I said that it wasn't Christianity, but mans distortion of the truth that lead to the violence. You basically agree with that, because you make the comment...regardless of where it is found in the Bible. So I can commit an atrocity, blame the constitution as the catalyst that sparked my extremist behaviour, regardless of whether or not it is in the constitution, or where it is found in the constitution? Let me state this fact again, no moral high horse, just the facts...there is no where in the Bible where Christ gives an order to murder, steal, rape or commit acts of violence. In fact he tells us as Christians to expect persecution and tells us that we will be hated because we are Christians. Once again, he tells us to pray for our enemies and to forgive others. That is the message of Christianity, just because some guy in a funny hat or a monarch decides to twist and warp the Christian message into a new doctrine to suit their agenda, doesn't mean that 'Christianity is to blame' it means that the leaders that twisted and warped the message are th ones to blame. In the case of the crusades, you never did answer the question of who the travellers going to the holy lands needed protection from... I could take this quote... And give a rebel rousing speech, saying all of those who follow the Judeo-Christian philosophy must be eliminated, so we can be free of all violence and extremism. If people were to go out and commit acts of violence based on that speech, who would be to blame. You for your harmless quote, or me for twisting and distorting your words to suit my agenda? When Jesus said to love your neighbour, and the king said, 'kill Muslims in Jesus name'...who is to blame? The king or the King of Kings? ~~~~~~~~~ Anyway, I would love to know how a thread discussing why 'Muslims are so easily offended', became a discussion ( again ) on Christian persecution of Muslims via the crusades and violence in the bible. Muslims are offended easily because their Quran tells them that they are the best of people and the rest of us are 'vile creatures'. How dare us vile creatures treat the greatest of all of Allah's creations the same as we would every other human being? How dare we draw a picture of Mohummad, just like we've drawn portraits of everyone else in history!...how dare we make a movie about the prophet!...how dare we treat the Quran as if it were just a corrupted bible? And so on.
Selectively taking verses with no context from the Quran is silly. Just like people who selectively take verses from the bible without context is silly. It's a cheap gimmick that is beneath you. Taking pictures of extremists and trying to portray them as the norm of the religion is also a cheap tactic. You're not representing yourself or Christianity very well when you resort to this.
First of all moderate Muslims come out against the extremists all the time. I'm sorry if you haven't been listening. Second it isn't their job to deal with the extremists anymore than it is white males job to do something about all the serial killers out there. What are non serial killing white males doing to stop the serial killing white males?
Although this apparently flew over your head, sharing an ideology is not the same as sharing a skin color and gender. One is chosen and a conscious decision, the other one is not.
Just heard a few comments on a local NPR show that sheds some light into why the anger over this movie and why Western Embassies besides just the US have been attacked. Among some Muslims groups they see a double standard regarding the allowing things like this movie under the banner of free speech. They point to the universal condemnation of things like Holocaust denial including laws in countries like Germany that outlaw Holocaust denial while speech denigrating Islam, the Quran and Mohamed as protected free speech. Personally I've felt this is why we need to be extremely cautious about bans and limits on free speech even when it applies to messages and groups that are almost universally despised such as the Westboro Baptist church.
Apparently the fact that it doesn't matter since it's still belonging to a group where a minority are behaving criminally and horribly isn't justification for casting aspersions onto everyone in that same group.
Holocaust denial is not a crime in the USA. Seems like they are taking a page out of Mathloom's book and are making up an excuse.
I am not saying it is rational only why in general it seems like some of these groups lash out at all things Western when something like this movie happens.
Yup. Teachers drop the Holocaust to avoid offending Muslims Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Governmentbacked study has revealed. It found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-445979/Teachers-drop-Holocaust-avoid-offending-Muslims.html
I am just curious if Muslims dislike the west so much why so many of them want to move to Europe and US?
The Daily Mail is trash.. Not saying if this story is true or not but half the crap on there is not true. edit: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/holocaust.asp
Thanks for the link. My mistake not to research the article. However: Yet between 2001 and 2007 the Muslim Council of Britain took the morally abhorrent (and strategically stupid) decision to boycott the day, crassly insisting that it be renamed "Genocide Memorial Day". In 2008, the boycott was dropped only to be resumed in 2009 after Israel's assault on Gaza. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2012/01/holocaust-muslim-genocide Today, for the twelfth year running, the UK marks Holocaust Memorial Day. The date commemorates the liberation of Auschwitz on January 27, 1945. It pains me to admit this, but the attitude of many of my fellow Muslims towards the Holocaust is a source of great shame to me. In the Middle East Holocaust denial is rife, from the President of Iran to the taxi drivers of Cairo. At home British Muslim attitudes are defined not just by denial but by indifference. Few Muslims or mosques take part in the memorial day. In 2006 a Channel 4 poll found that a quarter of British Muslims didn’t know what the Holocaust was and only one in three believed it had occurred. http://www.aafaq.org/english/aafaq_today.aspx
If I was to quote verses from the Quran in context, they usually Make the message much worse. You can't win either way. If you quote 'out of' context, you are attacked. When you use the Tafsirs & hadiths to put quotes into context you are told that the Tafsirs & hadiths are unreliable. It is a Muslim apologist tactic. If you do research on the subject and present the facts, the facts are overlooked and one is called a racist ( what race is Islam?), an islamophobe or that you are 'using well known hate sites' ( apparently any site that critiques the Quran or Islamic beliefs is a hate site). Instead of dealing with the facts presented they attack the messenger, and say things such as.... challenge for you sir... Well show me where I'm wrong! Why don't you put the verses that I quoted into their context? Show me the error of my ways? Why doesn't my favourite sparring partner, or any Muslim for that matter, put the verses into context? Either they themselves do not know the context, or they know that when put into context they verses sound worse. Also if they try to put verses into context, they would be using the sources that they themselves usually deem as unreliable. But please Mr FranchiseBlade, be my guest. Put a few of the verses I quoted into context and show me the error of my ways sir. Sorry for posting pictures that related to the thread... I don't just post pics of radicals and say that 'this is all Muslims'. I state, and always have stated that radicals are in the minority and are causing major grief for the majority of Muslims who are not extremists. Is this staement a cheap tactic, or the truth? Here is a happy picture for you This one truly brought tears to my eyes... This should be how all the people of the world deal with each other, IMO. That is your opinion mate. You seem to call yourself a Christian, but defend every other ideal, religious belief and stance that goes against the Christian message. You constantly harp on that Christians 'judge not', 'don't judge' or 'shouldn't judge', but all you've done in this post is sidestep the issues that I've raised and 'judged' me. Please take my challenge and put the verses from the Quran that I quoted in this thread, or any other, into their context, show me where I was wrong. God bless.
Well first of all someone else already showed that the translation of the verses may have been inaccurate. But I'll play with just one of the verses, because doing them all would take way too long, and I don't think you're mind will change no matter what. Let's look at Sura 8:12 That Sura is talking about specific conflict with a specific group of unbelievers who were questioning the prophet about why Israelites went to Egypt. It was included most likely to show that the Prophet who hadn't spoken about it before received his information from divine revelation. and it was to warn that particular group of Quraish that if they continued their conflict with Muhammad it would end with the Prophet's victory over them. It was addressed to the group that was currently holding Muhammad prisoner. It wasn't directed at all unbelievers from that time onward. Which makes sense because there are other verses which says this about Christians and Jews regarded as people of the book There is also this quote So it would make sense that the quote from you is directed at that specific group and wouldn't conflict with the quotes I've provided. What you did was post an extreme pic of Muslims and nice ones of other religions and asked which people would feel more comfortable with on an airplane. You're right that it's my opinion. I'm not trying to judge you at all. The only judgement I made was that you were better than taking verses out of context and using them to condemn an entire religion. I don't defend anything that goes against what was Christ's message.
