I like the idea of a full-on tank and rebuild. Might be our best chance at finding a star. We certainly won’t be getting an equivalent talent back in a trade for Harden, so setting up the framework for a rebuild would be a big boost to the future. Otherwise, we’re back on the mediocrity treadmill.
Yeah I’ve also seen some comments in other places saying how the knicks have the cap space to absorb iggy and Kelly O if need be.
No. But Trayvon Harris isn’t getting the same hype as Tyler Herro, even if he had the same body and skills on that Miami team. Herro is almost 100% hype.
no one ever said that u can just package herro + other assets for a young star. the whole point of creating cap space is so that you can either a) try to lure a max free agent to sign (i know tilman sucks but as a free agent there is an incentive to play in silas' offense and play with a true pg like john wall), or b) absorb some bad contracts with first rd picks attached and just accumulate as many first rd picks as u can so that u can eventually trade for a star using some of those draft picks. it's a big gamble to bet on herro's potential, but even if he's a dud, the rockets would still have avenues to find that championship caliber franchise player. simmons, i think most of the board can agree that while he is a good player, he is not someone that will help u win a championship (not with his shooting deficiency), yet he is getting paid like the franchise cornerstone. it's not going to be easy to build around simmons given his salary and given the fact that he needs a specific type of system around him to succeed (at least 2 elite shooters). add the fact that him and john wall will inevitably share the floor for a minimum of 3 yrs (no one is taking on wall's contract) and there's a chance the fit might be so bad that he really underperforms his contract. there's also the chance that he performs really well but the rockets don't have team success and given his klutch ties, he forces his way to LA, and LA only. you're not gonna get good value back if that scenario unfolds.
im not sure why this board has such a problem comprehending you are only going to get POTENTIAL in return for a star. james is going to be 32 next year. father time is drawing up the papers as we speak. they are trading youth for 2-3 year window. take off the homer goggles and look at it objectively. the heat just went to the finals and the guys are trading were a huge part of that. they would not have made it that far without them. honestly even if they do the deal Im not sure it would be enough to beat brooklyn who already look like a cohesive unit. harden may not even fit in with those guys so its a big gamble they are taking also. jimmy butler is a worse outside shooter than WB. he needs the ball in his hands, and james doesnt like to give it up or be told when he is messing up. it seems like a bit of a clash but who knows at this point. no one rushing to give up a young star for james and if you think we can just hold onto until next year and someone will, you need to step into reality. his value is not going to go up. what did cp3 get traded for ? kevin garnett ? ray allen ? no all-stars were exchanged and they were all over 30. it doesnt matter what james has done in the past, the fact is he doesnt have much time left.
And u know for a fact how much James have left in the tank? Father time hits everyone differently so don't b pushing we gonna sell harden low cause of it.
thats the point. he could end up having even less than that. most players you can start to see a physical decline by 32-33 even though they are still very good. james isn't lebron and doesnt take care of himself the same way so i wouldn't expect anything like that from him.
Too much assumptions from u. Harden did not became the player he is today by taking days off and dck around. Harden may parties but he know what it takes and how to take care of himself. James is also not like most players. He's built and plays with a style that can prolong a players career. Also he has yet to have any massive injury cause he knows how to take care of himself. I pray to the trading god that stone doesn't think like u.
Because if you evaluate on the basis of basketball talent they have Bam and Butler or if you evaluate on the basis of marketing they have a couple of possibly promising young players.
it doesn't matter what stone thinks like, NO ONE IS GOING TO GIVE UP A YOUNG STAR FOR AN OLD HARDEN. leverage really only goes up until the trade deadline. wait til next year and the offers will be even worse. thats FACTS thats why BAM is off the table. simmons is only possible because they know if its more of the same this year, ben or joel are going to get moved anyway, and also why they are saying they want MORE than james to trade him.
If we're discussing longevity I think we still aren't appreciating just how good Harden is. Health: Harden vs Herro and Simmons Herro has missed 18 games last year at age 20. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/herroty01.html Simmons missed 16 games last year ag age 23. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html Harden missed 18 games over the last five years combined. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html Harden's game was never based on athleticism, but by having one of the highest Basketball IQ all time and skills. His game will age far better than the majority of players as he ages. Harden has better numbers and missed less games than LeBron at age 30, who is known for longevity. As LeBron missed 13 games that year: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html If Harden lost two steps over five years, he would still arguably still be as good or better than Herro or Simmons. They could go their whole career and never be as good or as healthy as an aging Harden. He is a full tier better now and likely better in the future.
How did Philly operate in a half court offense? Why haven’t teams been hacking Simmons? He’s not perfect, he’s just a better deal than Miami or anything put forth. Herro package is far more of a gamble.
EXACTLY!!! Is Embid / Harden / Harris better than Harden staying with HOU? I don’t think so, but Harden might lol
Exactly. We are in no rush. Harden is going to have to wait for the right trade deal. If he doesn’t like that then too bad. He agreed on the deal and he has to live with it. The Rockets have 2 years to figure out what THEY want to do with HIM. In case he and other people have forgotten, James Harden doesn’t own a NBA franchise. He has a lot of regular people money, but not NBA owner money. And ZERO championship...
^^^^ This Simmons isn't a star level player. The Miami trade not only adds shooters and I think Herro has the ability to become a better player than Simmons (He's only 20 yrs old. Plus you get to add Robinson/Precious and I like Nunn. Top it off with the three 1st rd picks and the picks already acquired from Portland and Detroit gives you the ammunition you need to rebuild in addition to having plenty of cap space to make trades to add multiple star players in FA or more likely trades.
Just took a look at Herro's advanced stats in the playoffs, and they look terrible. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/herroty01.html, https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610...&PerMode=Per100Possessions&sort=OPP_PTS&dir=1 When he is on the floor, Heat's offensive rating is 111.3, defensive rating is 112.0; when he is off the floor, the numbers are 112.3 and 102.9. So he hurts the offense slightly, but is a huge liability defensively. On/off rating -11.1, which puts him in Russell Westbrook level of bad (-13.7 last playoffs). Because of this, most of the advanced stats which takes into consideration whether the team wins or loses when a player is on court, look terrible for Herro. Some popular ones: Nba math TPA: -2.82 Bball-ref BPM: -0.2 538 Raptor: -0.9 PIPM: -3.04 (regular season) These stats are not quite Russ level of bad, but they're still all negative (it really is quite hard to have negative advanced stats), also Herro is just a role player, imagine how his defensive deficiency will be exploited if we build around him. Curry's defense wasn't nearly as bad, but he still needed to be surrounded by 4 all nba defensive team level player to help him cover that, and that was still probably the Achilles heel of the mighty Warriors.
The Miami package based on Herro would have to involve a 3rd team to sweeten the deal with an abundance of young prospects and picks to make any sense.
