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Why is Miami even an option for us????

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaBeard, Dec 19, 2020.

  1. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    According to basketball-reference.com, Herro's WS total right now is 1.6 and we still have about half of a season left to go. The previous two seasons saw WS of 1.6 and 1.7 for an "entire" season so Herro, technically, should perform better by season's end. Though I'm not a fan of WS I am a big fan of WS/48. Right now, Herro's WS/48 is .067 and an average NBA player should produce .100 WS/48. While his offense has grown with more minutes and more shot attempts he's rated as the worst defender on the Heat team that's getting significant minutes.
     
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  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    yeah there actually isn't any need for me to go on with someone who isn't relevant on this board and obviously is way over his head when it comes to actual player evaluation. moving on to folks who are actually relevant and respected around here who know what they're talking about
     
  3. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    I'm not here to be relevant on this board, I'm here to discuss basketball respectfully and offer data to back up my points.

    All you have done is post a large amount of times, with no substance or effort in each post.

    High shot rate, low efficiency, and caring about being relevant on an internet forum. Are you Tyler Herro's burner account? This would make so much sense.
     
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  4. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    you have no points. you're not relevant because your posts suck

    yeah omg you're talking to Tyler Herro. You've solved the mystery

    All you've done is post nonsense without context, because you know next to nothing about player evaluation
     
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  5. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Never thought i would see someone so worked up over Tyler Herro of all people on a Rockets forum lol What are we even talking about anymore.

    By the way did Miami even offer Herro in the Harden trade, I was always under the impression that Riley didn't even want Harden, and just kept low balling us. I remember only 76ers and Nets were teams with real offers at the end, Boston and Miami refused to give up any of significance.

    And if I were to choose between Simmons or Herro, I would definitely still go with Simmons even though I don't like him.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    There's plenty of Herro threads and posts dating back for the last year and change. And yes Herro was the center of discussion when it came to the Heat potential package

     
  7. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Maybe, but that was about potential targets for Harden trade last year.

    But Miami never was a serious buyer anyway, and Miami didn't want to part with both Herro and Robinson, there wasn't any real reports of a real offer from them. If anything there just a bunch of rumors of Heat doing some private investigation on Harden and how it would affect "Heat Culture"

    Why did this thread even get necro'd, when Miami wasn't really even an option at the end.

    You seem really engaged about this, are you angry because you really liked Herro last year or something.
     
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    nobody knows how serious they were as a buyer, certaintly not around here. But there were definitely rumbles about a Herro centered package from Miami. Miami was on harden's list of destinations. that was known. It was all a discussion on this board which is the point. If you want to nitpick and talk about "real offers", nobody around here knows what real offers were anyway
     
    #348 YOLO, Jan 14, 2022 at 12:48 PM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022 at 12:56 PM
  9. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  10. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    what do you mean by nobody knows, Miami pulled out of the trade in December, it was well documented. Houston asked for both Herro, Robinson plus picks, Miami said that was too much and ended the talks. It wasn't really about Tyler Herro per se, they didn't want to give up significant draft assets.

    https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/12/21/report-miami-heat-pull-out-of-james-harden-trade-talks/

    Miami has intriguing young players Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn, among others, plus some veteran players on the final years of their contracts who could have been used to facilitate the trade. However, the Rockets have also been looking for significant draft assets in Harden deals and the Heat currently can offer only their 2027 first-round pick in a trade. For those reasons, discussions never got very far on the Rockets’ side, sources said.

    It was also well documented that Houston used 76ers to leverage the Nets package.
     
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    so posting something that says Miami was in talks says exactly what my post referenced and that there were rumbles. I already knew that though. And it was obviously centered around herro and it had plenty to do with him

    Tilman was never going to send Harden to Morey and the 76ers. no idea how anyone would think that would be actually realistic
     
  12. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    sorry I didn't know that Miami formally pulling out trade talked means they are "serious buyers". It made sense that it was discussed last year because of potential trade talks.

    I also don't even know why you have an infatuation about this 1 year later anyway and seem to be really worked up about it. You are just in here insulting random people over Tyler Herro.
     
  13. NewAge

    NewAge Member

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    He’s played a lot of minutes due to injuries and COVID, but is most likely a 6th man on that team when everyone available: scoring punch off the bench.
     
  14. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    I mean teams pull out of trades all the time. I guess that means the only team that is considered "serious buyers" are the ones where the team gets accepted.

    Like i told you before theres threads talking about herro dating back for a year + and plenty of reasons to revisit discussions about him especially the ones who considered him a scrub. This won't be the last time you'll be hearing about it. not even close. if you don't like it, you might as well look pass them
     
  15. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    The "choices" were sometimes misconstrued. Yes, the assumption was that Simmons and Herro were the "centerpieces" of the respective deals. But almost everybody believed that Simmons was the more valuable player at that time (not so certain now after these past months). So the choices are not Simmons and Herro but the Philly package and the Miami package. It was assumed that since Simmons was viewed as the better player, the side pieces would not be as good as the Miami deal.

    Those of us who preferred the alleged Miami package didn't think either guy would be a player you would want to build around. In fact, I had accepted the fact that we would not be able to get back a franchise player for Harden because of how Harden acted at the end. (Simmons is also screwing Philly by lowering his trade value, BTW. Poor Morey! :D) Herro and some good assets would be more suitable for a rebuild than Simmons with not so good assets, not to mention his oversized contract. If we traded for Simmons, we would be doomed to mediocrity for a long time.
     
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  16. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Independent of my opinion on Herro, I will give you an easy example of what you asked for.

    Luka Doncic WS - 1.7

    Dwight Powell WS - 3.4

    Jalen Brunson WS - 4.1

    Dorian Finney-Smith WS - 3.3

    Tim Hardaway WS - 2.1

    Kristaps Portzingis WS - 3.2
     
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  17. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Luka Doncic is 1st on his team in VORP, 1st on his team BPM, and 6th in his team in win shares.

    Tyler Herro is 7th on his team in VORP, 9th on his team in BPM and 9th on his team in win shares.

    Other than the win shares, I do not see how their advanced stats are remotely comparable. A single stat should never be used to judge a player's on-court impact.
     
  18. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Here's your statement:

    "If you can find me a multi-time all-star or all-NBA player that is not even top 5 of their own team in VORP, WS or BPM, I'll concede you are right. I'm being generous, because Herro is only 7th, 9th and 9th on these categories"

    I'm assuming that you understand what "OR" means. So, does this not meet the criteria that you asked for?

     
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  19. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    It does, and I should have clarified more clearly on the context to account for clear anomalies. In addition, this is clearly a down year for Luka Doncic, all of his numbers are down across the board (he led his team in WS in his previous 2 seasons), so if anything the stat is accurately reflecting his noticeable drop in performance. However, I'm assuming you are also honest enough to understand the context of this discussion includes more than just win share.
     
    #359 flamingdts, Jan 16, 2022 at 9:18 PM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022 at 9:40 PM
  20. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    As I mentioned earlier, I wasn't commenting on Herro. I was simply replying to the criteria that you layer out.

    As you just confirmed, I provided case that met your criteria. Pretty straight forward.

    Whether you stick to your word and concede that yolo was correct or not, it doesn't really matter to me.
     
    YOLO likes this.

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