lol, I agree. I wish I could be discriminated against by making 25 million dollars that would be awesome.
I don't agree that he's being "hated on" due to expectations. I didn't think he would replicate Linsanity here, especially after watching Chalmers and Norris Cole shut him down while he was going Linsane last season. He's being justifiably criticized for his pis poor play, especially considering the contract he received. It's not going to stop either until he starts to play better. Thus far the Rockets have in Jeremy Lin an overpaid Asian version of Rafer Alston.
Lead a horse to water, can't make it drink. I'll try again. Let's go through this point by point. You said this: I'm trying to figure out who exactly is being racist against Lin. Last I checked one black dude said something racist about Lin last year. When black people joined the league people would protest, refuse to serve them at restaurants and make them use separate bathrooms and drinking fountains. To compare J Lin to that is utterly ridiculous. When black people joined the league That would be 1950: http://www.nba.com/history/season/19501951.html When was WWII? 1939-1945. When were Asians put in American internment camps during WWII? 1942-1944. So, about 5 years earlier than the first African-American joining the NBA, people who looked like Jeremy Lin were being put into forced internment camps in the USA. The point of your post seems to be 1) there's no real systematic racism being perpetrated against Jeremy Lin and 2) Lin isn't experiencing "real" racism like the first African-Americans who joined the NBA did. I posted the information about Asian-American internment camps because it occurred at approximately the same time as when the first African-Americans joined the NBA. I knew that; you might not know that. So, you might have missed the reference. Fair enough. Now you know. The point of the Asian-American internment camps is to help you, and others who might think as you do, understand that while you may feel that, for example, "Group A" had the worst of the racism grab bag, others might not see it that way. You cannot assume that your opinion, or version of 'reality,' is what others believe or feel. They may not see the world through the same prism you do. The Asian-Americans interred in WWII camps didn't get paid to professionally play a game. They were forcibly detained and put into prisons because of where they came from. You tried to "put Lin in his place," it would seem, as regards his not experiencing "real racism." My point about Asian-American internment camps took your one-up attempt and one-upped you. To help you understand that people of a similar background to Lin were experiencing worse prejudice against them -- in the USA, and at approximately the same time -- than that regrettably suffered by the first African-Americans who got paid to play professionally in the NBA. I was hoping that you, and others who may think like you, would understand that the idiotic attempt to classify "levels of racism" and play judge and jury on who has and has not suffered which "degree" of racism is a fool's errand. You obviously missed the point. Using analogy and history are not the hallmarks of an "insane" person. I was actually hoping to lift the level of rhetoric here. I think some got it. It would seem you, and the "comedy club" poster, did not get it or chose not to get it. So I say: Lead a horse to water, can't make it drink. I would also suggest you don't go down the "some of the biggest Yao Ming fans were black" path. That sounds a lot like "some of my best friends are black" type of defense some accused white racist would say. I don't think that kind of argument is particularly effective. To me, it sounds desperate and unconvincing. Also, I would stay away from "you people" and "they" and such. That is likely to offend some people, just as saying things like "To compare J Lin to that is utterly ridiculous" might offend some people. You might not like the responses you get to such statements, including ones like I gave. Don't minimize the racism against Jeremy Lin because you don't think it rises to the level of that experienced by African-Americans 60 years ago. I think that's a mistake, and it can make those you're talking to think you are focused on the injustices perpetrated against, say, Group A, but you don't care about the possible injustices suffered by Group B. Since you didn't seem to grasp the meaning of my previous post, I'll make this more explicit for you: A white guy who only seems to care about "reverse racism" against whites, but doesn't seem to care about racism against African-Americans, isn't a very sympathetic character. I would imagine you would want to avoid that role, then. In my post (#185 in this thread) that responded to your post, I said this: Now, is some criticism of Lin totally valid? Of course it is. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me what the color of your skin is. I had no idea that you are black. That doesn't really matter, and it doesn't have any effect on what I'm saying. I'm sure there are people who are not African-American who are saying things about Lin that those in the Asian community (and other communities) would consider "racist." So, the discussion of racism regarding Lin isn't something that is only confined to one group or another. I certainly don't see it that way, anyways. Racism is racism. Including supposed "positive racism" (like: I'm a part of a group that is 'naturally' smarter than that other group), as I pointed out in my post. It's all bad, whether it's blatant, in-your-face racism, or more subtle, but still persistent, racism.
Ludicrous post. Where were you to cry racism when talking about Rafer or David Andersen? And I don't see you going after the people who called Texans "racist hick redneck southerners", since obviously they've never been here to the diverse areas. They get name called like that by someone who THINKS they said something racist when they in fact didnt. So in their mind they are responding to (non)racism with racism. Why does the deserved praise for Yao get overlooked? Yao is one of my favorite rockets of all time. I have posted it plenty of times(in other threads) as well as my own sig. Lin is a scoring pg and needs the ball too much to mesh well with Harden. That means he needs to either become a much better shooter or play off the bench. Harden(now Kmart's role) played off the bench in OKC for the same reason and so did Ginobili with the Spurs, so does Jamal Crawford. He shouldn't start for this reason, if he's struggling may as well try something different. If he excels at it and plays better then I don't see why not. Needs to find the best role on this team. LOFs simply weren't around(nor would they ever care) to watch Lowry or Dragic playing for the rockets to understand the frustration of letting both of them leave for a player who isn't as well established You guys are simply delusional if you think the criticism RIGHT NOW is due to racism. Its obviously because he became a well known player last season playing on a team he had full reigns to, free flow offense, until Melo and Amare came back. Great stretch of games, so there were expectations to meet at least half that. If he were a no name who didnt replace better players then no one would be talking about it. Matter fact I wouldn't be criticizing Lin at all if he were replacing Rafer Alston(who he is playing like right now) instead of Lowry or Dragic. Then the decision would make basketball sense. I want him to at least meet or exceed the play of Lowry and Dragic, and I doubt that'll happen. Hopefully im wrong for the rockets sake.
You cannot speak for everyone. Yours is not/may not be, but for some people, it's part of the reason, and it shows in their posts. So the truth is somewhere in the middle. Lowry was already gone. Dragic and the Rockets could not agree on a contract. So it was not a "Lin or Lowry" or "Lin or Dragic" decision.
What is actually "non-constructive" is your accusations of racism, because it is difficult to prove. Since it is hard to prove, there is no way to move the discussion forward on terms everyone can agree on, especially if you make others feel defensive or indignant. Accusations of racism never take the conversation anywhere except downhill. However, for those that refuse to acknowledge that prejudice is sometimes involved in discussions of Lin, keep in mind that prejudice is rarely provable even when it does actually exist. For example, in the work place, a racist boss will never say "I am denying you promotion because you are a chink/redneck/*****r/etc." Instead, he will give another reason that avoids any way for you to pin him down. Also, racists, like all human beings, are usually not fully aware of their own biases. The most frightening thing about racism is precisely that it is hard to pin down and prove, since it is usually expressed in coded ways. If there are racists on this board, they know it is unacceptable to say outright, "I don't like Asians and I don't like Asian fans." Instead they express it in a coded way: "LOFs are annoying." Lin has a broad appeal that goes beyond just Asian fans, so "LOF" does not always mean Asian, but this is probably how some haters use the word. Again, hard to prove, so it's not constructive to make accusations about this. In the work place, someone might wonder if discrimination is involved if he has been denied a promotion even though he has the same or better qualifications as someone who got promoted. You cannot prove racism but you can show that a double standard is being applied. In the case of Lin and possible discrimination, all you can constructively point to is that he is judged in ways that are different from other players that perform similarly. You can discuss whether a double standard is involved without ever invoking the word "racism," which totally kills the conversation and any possibility of common understanding.
Wrote a long reply but was somehow not entered. Anyway, my point was: just because many black people are Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming fans does not negate the fact that there are a lot of blacks who are racist against Lin and Yao just b/c of their skin color, i.e. SA Smith, Jason Whitlock, Floyd Mayweather, and "Rob" from ESPN. IMO, it's not a coincidence that Lin plays worst w/black coaches, i.e. Smart, Brown, and now Sampson; they obviously favor black NBA players over him. Do you think McHale or D'Antoni would've started Douglas in OT or only playing lin for 26 minutes like Sampson did the other day? Of course not. Lin endures racism beyond comprehension throughout his entire life. If he had been black, as the #1 consensus player out of California HS at the time, he would've FOR SURE been recruited to a top college program. Instead, he had to walk onto Harvard. He also wouldn't have been called racist crap like chnk, had his eyes made fun of, told to go back to China, etc., if he were black. Nor would opposing guards target him and try shut him down as hard if he were black. I could go on and on. Imagine being the ONLY black/white/hispanic dude in an organization of a few hundred people, many of whom HATE you because of your race. I think Jeremy and most people here believes the harm >>>>>>>>>> benefit in terms of Lin being Asian in the NBA.
Ppl need to calm down with wishing we atill had lowry or dragic... I wish we still had scola... But im not starting theards...
Thus far the Rockets have in Jeremy Lin an overpaid version of Rafer Alston. 1. Why can't people just do it like this, to avoid the "racism" issue? 2. Jeremy is an American anyway, so that makes it more factual. 3. I agree with your post btw, except the bolded part with the word Asian. Without it, I agree that rocket Jeremy up to this point, is an overpaid Rafer. 4. If you will insist on using Asian because that is his race pedigree, that will justify the LOFs in smelling an agenda, IMHO.
Let give guy a chance. He can rebound pretty well for PG, assist also good, +/- efficiency look good too. Some complaints about the shooting percentage should be better soon.......Uhhh..why weconplain about him......Dragic & Lowry were here but they only can make us to No.9 not even in play off level. And see them now! in Phoenix and Toronto, are they doing better????? Future is here, embrace it, enjoy the ride! GO ROCKET!!!!!!!!!
Lowry would have stopped b****ing if he got that nice check, you know that, I know that, come on man. Dragic just wanted his 4th year. And Lowry would have discussed it over like grown men with coach McHale over whatever problems they had. But it's extremely annoying that anyone who criticizes him for his bad play is a "racist" all of the sudden. I agree with the person that S.A.S and others are biased, I don't know if I can call them racist out-right, but I personally heard SAS say "if a white guy cheers for a white guy because he's white, and a black guy cheers for a black guy because he's black, so what?" there's a lot of issues with that to me, but I'm not gonna spend my time arguing with that, since half of that is human nature. Anyway I'm done saying anything more for now because I've said everything I could say at this point, so lets just wait and see where Lin takes us.
For all the conspiracy theory about Morey and Les already deciding on Lin before the Dragic contract negotiations completed, how about I offer one on Dragic. Dragic wanted to go back to Phoenix, and Phoenix was ranked higher on his free agent list than the Rockets. Especially after he knew Nash would be gone, or the organization would be willing to let Nash go, if they knew he would come back. And that he would be the starter and the team would be his. Plausible? We know that Dragic loved his time in Phoenix, and his girlfriend (hot, by the way) was from Phoenix. Could it be possible his negotiation with the Rockets were never good faith, and in fact his agent probably knew a 4th year players option would be a sticking point, and hence insisited on it. I mean how many players go back to the team that traded him away mid season, and gave away a 1st round draft pick as well, for an inferior player? Most would be insulted. We know one guy that was so insulted by the Rockets suggestion during the draft workouts that he may have to play in the D League, as the Rockets had Yao Ming and Deke in front of him, that he basically swears he would never play for the Rockets, and offered his advice on twitter for someone in the Rockets organization to be fired for drafting Royce White, voluntarily. Anyway, my Dragic conspiracy theory, to me anyway, doesn't sound as far fetched as the one that Morey/Le$ purposely let Lowry and Dragic go to offer a 3yr/$25M contract to a player who the deep pocketed Knicks team that throws $10M/Yr contracts at random back-ups, who helped solved a season-long cable TV dispute within days of Linsanity, who not only resuscitated the team, helped it into the playoffs and made it relevant again for the first in years if not decades, and who a prominent member of the organisation had just said they would match anything up to a billion dollars, and that nobody thought they would not match. But maybe that's just me and my weird logic / love for conspiracy theories (that actually made sense). Get over it, Lowry didn't wan to play for McHale and Dragic wanted to go back to Phoenix. We got what we could, by paying what we thought could give us a very outside chance, so as to not end up having one of Raymond Sessions, Aaron Brooks, Shaun Livingston or Toney Douglas start at PG for us.
There is no such thing as "positive racism" because there's always a negative flip-side. For example, the "positive racism" that says that Asians are naturally smarter also usually implies that Asians are also less physically robust, more robotic, and less capable in leadership roles. Another example is the "positive racism" that Blacks are naturally stronger and faster. We don't need to rehash the old negative stereotypes that that entails, do we?
It's some of the responses in this thread that make me want Lin traded or cut sometimes. Just to get rid of some of these posters.
My problem with some of the criticism here is that a lot of people are extrapolating unsupported conclusions based on an extremely tiny sample of games (12), while completely dismissing a larger sample of games last season (25). This reeks of confirmation bias, and that's why all this talk about race is flying around. If you say that Lin sucks right now and has to improve, that's one thing. It's totally another thing to say that Lin sucks right now because he just inherently sucks because just so. Lin put up ROY numbers last year when given his first serious chance at playing in the NBA. That CANNOT be ignored. If it was just a fluke, how come other players haven't done it more? Surely, a young PG would've put up numbers similar to Lin's if given the chance if Linsanity was just a common fluke, like a journeyman putting up 40 points in a game. Read Nate Silver. Statisically-speaking, Lin's accomplishments all point to a very productive NBA career. At the absolute least, he belongs in the NBA. Yet there are people here who want to relegate him to the D-League because of a small slump, during which his main struggle has just been shooting. Seems like confirmation bias to me.
REEKO_TOWN: I agree with you more often than not, and I agree with you partially here also. I too sometimes would like Lin to be traded away, not only to see some of the LOFs gone, but more so all of the LOHs gone, especially those that mask their hatred for Lin or Asians (for whatever reasons) by posting what they claim to be innocent racist humour or remarks, or by pointing out flawed or one-sided (non objective) eye test basketball analysis, and worst of all by saying that they are making these comments because of their love for the Rockets team above and beyond any individual player (or that they got here before July 2012). We can certainly differ on exactly who or which comment crosses the line, or what may be innocent or intended or just ignorant posts, but it's hard to pretend none or even very little of that crap actually exists here.
If you are based on Lin's play right now, he looks like an overpaid Asian dude. But the 3 years Lin with Rockets would definitely brings in much more revenues to the Rockets and the NBA then Rafer Alston's whole career could do, then you would understand that the owners are doing their business cleverly. For this, I would say Les made a smart decision. You should thank LOFs that they not only keep Lin in constant spot light (like advertisements), but pay $$ to do so (consumers). Rockets needs LOFs to be around.
