haven: sign and trades clearly bring a whole new level of difficulty to the equation. Although i have to wonder what team would be in the position to give up value for C-Webb and still be an "automatic" championship contender. Of course it could be a couple of high salaried players with expiring deals to generate cap space for SAC down the road but without Webber who the hell would go there anyway . . . Thanos: Yes there is a difference between playoff and championship contender. I strongly believe that this is a playoff team even without Mo. One or more of Phoenix, Minnesota, Seattle, SAC or Utah will stumble and don't even start with the Denver / Dallas BS. But we're talking about C-Webb at the end of this season, when Francis will have 2 full years under his belt, Mobley will have continued to improve his game (read: brain), Shandon will have a full season of non-Barkley ball experience, and one of the front court guys (Cato or Collier) will have had time to develop. Throw C-Webb in that mix and you're telling me that's not a CHAMPIONSHIP contender that can challenge Shaq, Kobe and . . . wait a minute . . . who the hell are the rest of the guys on that team? oh yeah, no one; and they still should have lost to that pathetic over the hill portland team led (ha ha) by the least clutch con artist ever to don an NBA uniform and a freaking DINOSAUR at center and a game but creaking shooting guard . . . let's get something straight: LA is no freaking Chicago Bull dynasty. Shaq still shoots 45% from the line. Both he and Kobe could blow up that relationship at any minute. And who else do they have? NO ONE. Portland is excruciatingly old and in 2 years will consist of bonzi wells and rasheed; SA is going to be left with Duncan and little else (derek anderson? give me a break. the rockets have 4 guys better than him right now); Phoenix is cursed and besides Penny is (still) a cancer; Seattle might still have a good team if Payton hasn't talked himself off the team by then, but with C-Webb and the current -- further matured -- cast, the Rockets are definitely Championship contenders. (don't even get me started on the East. Miami? HA) i said i didn't have any C-Webb to houston evidence but i'm working on it. even if he hasn't said anything, assuming the rockets have the cap room, i challenge you to name even 3 better set destinations at the end of this season for him. ------------------ [This message has been edited by JR (edited August 24, 2000).]
As far as giving up value for talent goes, what do you have to say about the sign and trade that sent atkins and wallace to Detroit in exchange for Hill? Unreasonable enough, isn´t it? And what about Miami giving up Weatherspoon and Gatling for Grant? Players will get wherever they want to be these days through the threatof walking away for nothing. The same will hold true for SAC if Webber wants out. Now let´s see, 3 destinations. Destination #1: The Knicks - He has said that he would love to play with Sprewell again. Destination #2: The Magic - No cap, but these days, you NEVER know what could happen. Bo Outlaw, Amaechi and Miller for Webber? No entirely unthinkable if he wants to get there. Destination #3: Seattle, if they could get rid of Baker in exchange for him, where he would play with Payton and Rashard. Destination #4: Dallas - Nuts? I don´t think so. they have more PF´s than you can shake a lamb´s tail at, which could be traded, and Cuban is attracting a LOT of attention to that team. Cuban is ready to buy himself a championship. Who else... well, not a lot of options, i guess. Home is where the heart is, i suppose, and he could head to Detroit. I´m feeling lazy now, but i could come up with a lot of other scenarios. ------------------ "The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams. It´s Heaven and Hell!"
i realize that sign and trades don't have to be equitable talent wise (roy rogers for pippen -- on second thought, that wasn't too far off). pretty good alternatives but i take issue with DALLAS -- yes i know, perceptions are changing, but wait until that team goes 32-50 this year and see what the perception is. I've never seen a more overrated team than this bunch. Okay, top 5 destinations for Webber, via any route, in no particular order: NY, ORL, SEA, . . . who else? PHO maybe? LAL? and there's your whole list, in my mind, of even remotely possible locations outside of HOU. And i think HOU will look better than PHO SEA and NY for sure after this season. In any case, I think it's ridiculous to say that the Rockets wouldn't be near the top of Webber's list next year. ------------------
JR, for some reasons we are not aware of, even Houston's top dogs don't seem to have any faith that we could get Webber. That can easily be seen by their desire to sign and trade for Mo and thus guaranteeing him here for 3 years instead of a 1 year 2.25 mil exception. That being said, of course im in LOVE with the idea of having Webber on the rockets, no doubts about it. I just don't think the odds are in our favor. ------------------ "The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams. It´s Heaven and Hell!"
Actualy its by far the least plesant city that I have been to in California. It has horrible, hot weather. It is in the middle of a desert that was converted to farmland. About the only city I can think of with worse summer weather than Sacramento is... er... Houston... It's really a backwater as far as California is concerned, much more like the type of conservative midwestern city that tends to not appeal to NBA players traditionally. The dichotomy of western and eastern California is highlighted by the fact that it is such a short drive from the hip mecca with great weather that is Oakland/SF. But then, there's the bottom line. Everyone has reasons to go places that have nothing to do with quantitative values. I live in Houston. If I could create my ideal city in my mind, Houston would be really close to the bottom, yet here I am. If the city by itself was all that was important, LA, Golden State, and maybe Miami or NY would be the only contenders year after year. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Ottomaton (edited August 24, 2000).]
[/B][/QUOTE] As far as I understand, the sign and trades are very difficult for teams that are over the cap. The deal will only get harder when the player like Chris Webber is involved. I'm may not be a capitalogist but I know that due the BYC rule, Chris Webber's trade value will only be 45% of the contract, which should be around $5M. The problem is Sacremento has to through in guys like Divac if they are to get players like Houston, ket's say for instance. Is he that worth it? Wouldn't it be better to just let Webber go and sign other FAs? In order to sign Webber, New-York has to pull off a miracle due to their cap situation. Also Sacremento will likely turn to rebuilding mode, if they Webber walks out. Draft pick might be more valuable to them than players like Houston, Camby who should be in their primes. P.S. If Kings demanded Mo, Collier, future draft pick, a draftee, in next year's FA market would you pull off the trigger? ------------------ Hack a Shaq you'll be winning Hack-him you'll be dreaming.
#1. It'd be 50%, not 45% #2. Webber made 11 mill last year. He will not be BYC #3. It's unlikely that we'd get Webber via sign and trade, just because we're unlikely to be the type of team that would have him wanting to go here for less. Mo would have to consent to going to Sacramento (hah). The whole reason for Webber rumors, is because we will have the space. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
I am not overly optimistic about getting C-Webb to the Rocks, but here are some points I thought of while reading all the posts. Any *serious* contender will have to go through Shaq or Zo. 1) The Knicks - Webber and Spree vs Shaq and Kobe. With Ewing a year older or Camby starting at the 5 (backed up by Chris Dudley) I'm not sure how much of a contender this would be. Vlade is probably comparable to Ewing at this stage in his career and the Kings second unit would destroy the Knicks second unit. Are next years Knicks a serious contender? Be honest. 2) The Magic. Let say that they don't have to deplete their power players. So now we have a championship (I did not say *playoff*) contender with Amechi, Doleac and Bo as the inside forces. We're griping about Cato and Collier and someone envisions a championship with Amechi and Doleac. Get real. You can bet McGrady will again complain b/c he's not getting the ball at crunch time - especially if he's option #3! 3) Sonics - Would have to be a sign and trade or Seattle is way over the cap and has two PF's and dare I say it again -no dominate center. With Anderson and Vlade another year older, and JDub the only star caliber player, I say they pack it in and clear cap space before they take Bakers' contract. 4) Dallas - OK, OK, I know money is no object to Cuban, but he's gonna have to sign Finley first. And it's gonna have to be a bunch 'cause you can bet if we know how much Webber costs, Finley's agent surely does. Now we have a serious contender with Shawn Bradley as the starting 5 and currently no backup listed on the depth chart. Maybe Laettner will backup Bradley. I guess Cuban's logic is - if I have 25 players, I'll bet I can find 12 good ones. I just don't see this happening unless Cuban signs the two highest contracts in NBA history. Of these teams (and let's include the Pistons, too) even at his present level Cato is better than anybody's 5. (Don't even try to tell me these teams will have enough $ left for a 5). The Rockets today are clearly better 3 of these 5 teams, close to the Knicks and IMO the verdict is still out on a Hill/McGrady led team. Like I said to start, I am sure we are not Webbers #1 choice, but he'd have to be foolish not to consider the Rocks. ------------------ GATER
Shouldn't we just go after someone like Finley? We could much rather use a small forward next year, than to chalk a fourth PF. I think this line-up would be much better... C-Cato/Collier PF-Taylor/Thomas/Bullard SF-Finley/Williams/Langhi SG-Anderson/Mobley PG-Franics/Mooch
DaneB - I don't see Hakeem anywhere in there. Are you sure you've got the right year? ------------------
