Why is God intelligently designing Avian Influenza viruses to jump to humans?

First let me say that I don't know enough about Buddhism to to blame any Buddhist for evil in the world. I wasn't trying to do that. I was trying to point out differences I see as a Christian pastor with regard to scriptures in the Bible. I should have posted more scriptures to be clear about my comments. I was trying to point out some differences in what happens when men seek their own happiness- how the opposite takes place of what men intend. Good intentions often pave the road to destruction and evil. The best of men have set out to find their own happiness, peace and enlightenment and the proof of history is that men by themselves end up with selfish motives and eventually someone's idea of personal happiness is at the expense of someone else.

I should edit and point out I believe there probably many Buddhists who are peaceful and loving men and women. I don't have any reason to believe differently.

Having said that let me address your comments,
"I agree that people should act morally because it is the right thing to do but from my understanding of Christianity that there also is a reward and punishment system that entices people with the promise of eternal happiness through Heaven for moral behavior and punishment through Hell. True this is more specifically a Catholic belief but it to lesser or greater extents in the other denominations its recognized that moral behavior brings one closer to godliness."-

The reward of Heaven and the punishment of Hell is never held out as a means of salvation in the Bible. As a motivation the idea of reward and punishment is actually thrown off as insufficient. That is the idea that a Christian cannot be saved by keeping God's law or even by attempts to keep the law. The Christian faith teaches that the problem of evil in the world is rooted in the heart or the very nature of man and man cannot save himself. Salvation is a work God must do for man. It is a humbling thought.

The thought that man through some enticement or motivation can attain a selfless heart is rejected in scripture. Repentance and faith in Jesus Christ are the scriptural basis for God's work in the heart of man. This work is called grace in scripture.

There is no teaching in scripture that moral behavior brings one closer to godliness. The Christian perspective is that God brings us closer to moral behavior through grace. The Bible states "our own righteous efforts are like filthy rags (to God). Men receive a spiritual change of heart through grace not any works or efforts that man could boast of, it is a gift from God.

Faith is not an act of motivation at all. It is ceasing from one's own effort and trusting in God's work. The only motivation Bible faith offers is to agree that God is right and trustworthy. Let me illustrate this- There are traffic signs, speed limits, yellow stripes down the center of roads etc etc and most people go a little over the speed limit, they sometimes pass over the solid yellow line, they don't always stop at the stop signs. They obey the laws most of the time but they weigh out their own personal happiness, the consequences for disobedience and they believe there is lots of wiggle room. They go down the highway 80 mph hour because everyone else is doing it, until a highway patrol car pulls right behind them. Now everything is different- it doesn't matter anymore what everyone else thinks, they slow down to the speed limit, they watch how they change lanes, they use their blinker and they come to complete stops at stop signs. The highway patrol motivated them to obey, but that did not change them. As soon as the highway patrol turns the opposite way and gets out of site then it is back to driving as usual.
The laws were good, their own motivations justified their 'little' disobedience.

Now suppose my son who trusts me is driving. I tell him to obey the traffic laws. He goes out on the freeway and because he loves me and he trusts me he obeys the traffic laws. It doesn't matter to him if everyone else is speeding he is content to do what I told him because he believes it is right, he has that 'faith' in his father. This is the faith the Bible speaks of. It is not based upon rules or laws it is based upon love and trust. It is relational and has to do with the motivations of the heart.

Only God can change the human heart and produce this motivation. That is what Jesus meant when he said a man must be 'born again' in the spiritual sense. A divine act must cause faith to grow as love and trust. Honesty must be chosen because it is right not because of the penalty or reward. That is the only way the motive is right.

I think most people miss this important point because there are many false motivations within Christianity. There are many Christians who are doing these things in their own will power and not from the power of God's spirit. Jesus said over and over that in the Christian church their would be two distinct groups- the genuine and the false.

Matthew 13:24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Many of Jesus parables and teachings deal with this issue-
The sheep and the goats
The good fish and the bad fish
The wise virgins and the foolish virgins
Those who build on sand and those who build on a rock
The parable of the talents
And more, etc

Sadly, there are many tares in the Christian world- just look at the evil done in the name of Christianity, just consider the many wicked Christians you may encounter.

This is not to say that Christians are perfect at all. It is to say that the genuine Christian character is being perfected in the heart by God. The Bible clearly states that the fruit of this work is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness and self control. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said, (Matthew 7:15-19) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


The idea of heaven and hell are a motivation, but it is not sufficient in itself to make someone a Christian, in truth it can't. Christians are not good apart from Jesus Christ's work and grace.

"No faith has proven to bring universal peace to all mankind and no faith has proven to bring universal misery"-

No faith will bring 'universal' peace. That will not happen in this life. Man will grow more evil. What we see on the news today will not be changed by man's attempts at enlightenment, understanding, or knowledge. It will take a merciful and loving and just God to change the human heart.

Jeremiah 29:11-13 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
12Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. 13And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

 

Too bad Buddhists prove all of that as false. They do just fine. You spout off passages from the bible but offer no hard evidence. Yes there are good Christians, but they are no better than the good people of other religions. Show me one Christian that lives a better life than a good Buddhist. Just one. Where are they? I don't see them. Where is this one person that your god lifted up higher than anyone else? (please dont say Jesus).

 

There is no false in the cosmic unconsciencousness, no entity.

In fact there are no true Buddhists all people are equal in there essential attitudes.

No true, no false, no right, no wrong. (Except you are right and we are wrong)

It is clearer to me.

 

i realize this isn't my discussion....but Jesus is the ONLY answer a Christian would give to your question. so to say i can't answer that way...well...that's the only way i know to asnwer it. he is the only one that we believe is lifted up higher than anyone else.

Christianity doesn't point to humanity to say, "look at us...we are so good...we are so right. we're better than everyone else." to the contrary, Christ said that we are to regard others as better than ourselves. as a Christian, i don't think of myself as being in competition with people of other faiths to see who is best...because i'm clearly not. which is why I feel the need for a savior to begin with.

 

That's what I hear.

 

I don't really look for competition either. I just want to do what I think works best. My goal is peace right now, not in an afterlife. Something so abstract and mytholigical has no meaning to me.

 

i'd like peace now and in the hereafter. i'm not ignoring the now. Christ didn't instruct to ignore the now.

 

christianity is cruel if you ask me. god created man in his own image but made him flawed. he made animals and the rest of the natural world inferior to man. he then created diseases and all kinds of predators so that his creations would attack one another perpetually in order to survive. that's mean.

 

That's not Christian theology.

He didn't create man flawed. Man chose something else for himself. Namely, he chose himself.

 

There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
"The stars aren't aligned,
Or the gods are malign..."
Blame is better to give than receive.

Chorus
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland.

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.

Chorus

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.

Chorus

 

It is obvious that I think mankind needs Jesus Christ as Savior and that man does not have inherent goodness and that we all need forgiveness of sin through the work of Christ on the Cross.

I am a Christian pastor and those to me are Christian basics.

The forgiveness Christianity offers is for the guilty. The ones who aren't good enough in themselves. Those who fall short. Those whom justice would condemn.

Moral right and wrong is essential to pardon and forgiveness. If you are not wrong you can rely on justice not pardon.

I do not feel that 'putting down' any other religion is the Christian message. I think that the Christian message stands for what it is.

What I do not understand is this-

Is Buddhism essentially saying that man is good?
What does Buddhism use to define justice? Is it man's responsibility to define it?
Does Buddhism teach that man on his own through enlightenment can attain perfection or goodness?

I ask the above questions because I thought I understood Buddhism, but I find here that there is far more to it than I know.

The things expressed earlier about Buddhism seemed to be put in a way that it wasn't much different from some Christian theology. I didn't see it that way.

Christians themselves don't agree on theology. Many Christians would not agree with me.

It is not important for me to be right. I believe God is right and it is important for me to be humble and trust in God. I am expressing one view.

The basic essentials of Christian faith unite Christians they do not divide us.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins on the cross, He arose from the grave and by faith we can receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life (heaven).

I was addressing Sishir Chang- simply because I was able to understand what he had to say about Buddhism.

MR MEOWGI- I am not able to understand your points as well as Sishir Chang, and I am sure that is a shortcoming on my part. Some of what you posted seems confusing. The no entity, nothing, moral, justice, essential attributes parts were hard for me to get what you meant with regard to the questions I listed above. (Remember I have a different religious perspective)

I added the smiley face because it leaves me smiling when I try to put some of that stuff together.

 

MadMax;

I think you make a good example of why this sort of debate is unprofitable. The natural human urge is to be competitive but in the end we're arguing things that are difficult to compare with nothing objectively quantitative.

I have no problem with you, Rhester or anyone else needing a savior. Its not something that I spiritually feel I need and I don't think that makes either of us any less moral.

I'm not even sure that these ideas are in opposition with one another. There are people who call themselves Christian Buddhists. They believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible but also follow Buddhist methodology in their practice to center themselves. I'm not one of them so I can't explain it but it does point out that in some cases both ideals can coexists.

 

Rhester;

I appreciate your response but won't go through it for lack of time. I think what the main difference between Buddhism and other religions is the idea that there isn't a spiritual hiearchy within Buddhism in terms of Man being below God(s). In Buddhism there is Man and other beings like Buddhas, Boddhisatvas, Mahasatvas, Arhats and etc.. but they aren't inherently superior to Man and its possible for Man to reach that level. There's no God(s) per se that are the ultimate arbiters of right or wrong only the understanding that the Universe itself is inherently run by laws of cause and effect / Karma and as part of the Universe we are bound by Karma.

Pope John Paul II once said that Buddhism has many aspects of atheism which I would necessarily deny because if religion is about having a deity above Man then yes Buddhism does share many aspects with atheism. The difference though is that Buddhism does look to higher purpose and understanding of the Universe beyond the strictly material. In fact Buddhism goes further and says that the material is illusory which makes it a faith and not just a materially oriented rational philsophy.

As I said in my response to MadMax. I don't believe that this means that Buddhists or Christians are any less moral than each other. It just means that there is a difference in regard to where one derives their morals from.

I did want to comment briefly on a few things. In Christianity Man is considered inherently evil and inherently weak where as Buddhists don't view Man as being inherently evil or good but possessed of the potential to do both.

This is a question more of intellectually curiousity. What you say here goes to the heart of the schism between Catholics and Protestants regarding whether one can attain grace through good works or faith alone. Possibly because I went to Catholic School for a while and might be unconsciously influenced I've had a hard time seeing the Protestant view on this. If it is through faith alone that one can attain Heaven then what's to stop someone from behaving immorally all there lives then upon death declaring their faith?
Also a question that has come up recently on the D & D if it is faith alone it requires knowledge to even know about that you need faith. How does someone who has never heard of Jesus declare faith in Jesus? Or are they already doomed to never even have the possiblity of attaining Heaven because they were misfortunate enough to live in a place that never heard of Jesus?

 

Which sect do associate with most? Theravada? Zen? Vajrayana? Just curious.

 

Neither good or evil but has the potential to be both.

This is a difficult question to answer and the most understanding that I have is that jutice isn't a fixed concept but one that is relative upon cause and affect. For instance its wrong to kill yet there is a story of one of the previous lives of the Buddha where bandits attacked a caravan he was riding in. Knowing that the bandits would rape, loot and murder the people in the carravan he killed the bandits even though he also knew that it was wrong to kill. The story was explained to me in two ways. That it was right to act in a way that was morally wrong, killing, to prevent a far greater wrong. Two, that under Karma the bandits by doing wrong were subject to having wrong done to them. So justice in terms of an absolute right vs. an absolute evil isn't always obvious and that it is up to Man to attempt to understand that.

That's about as clear as chocalate milkshake but I can't explain it better than that.

Yes. The potential and the goal of Buddhism is to become a Buddha (enlightened being) While this is loaded with all sorts of mystical connotations at its heart it just means understanding the nature of the Universe and being in harmony with it. Its not the samething as going to Heaven even though even within some denominations of Buddhism it is viewed that way.

It is very different but there are some areas of overlap such as Karma compared to the Golden Rule.

 

sishir, i appplaud your diplomacy and your patient attempts at explaining heady concepts. i don't mean to come off flippantly, but sometimes i can't help myself, sorry. i just feel as strongly that christianity is a load of bull**** as max and rhester feel it is true. i am, however, fascinated with religion and enjoy the banter. i really don't want to offend anyone but i treat others beliefs as i would have others treat mine. that means with fear and intimidation, just kidding.

 

I think it does say man is good. This is from one of my favorite Buddhist authors:

Basic Goodness or Original Sin?
By Chögyam Trungpa
http://www.purifymind.com/GoodnessSin.htm

Buddhist psychology is based on the notion that human beings are fundamentally good. Their most basic qualities are positive ones: openness, intelligence and warmth. Of course this viewpoint has its philosophical and psychological expressions in concepts such as bodhichitta (awakened mind), and tathagatagarbha (birthplace of the enlightened ones). But this idea is ultimately rooted in experience-the experience of goodness and worthiness in oneself and others. This understanding is very fundamental and is the basic inspiration for Buddhist practice and Buddhist psychology.

Coming from a tradition that stresses human goodness, it was something of a shock for me to encounter the Western tradition of original sin. It seems that this notion of original sin does not just pervade western religious ideas. It actually seems to run throughout Western thought as well, especially psychological thought. Among patients, theoreticians and therapists alike there seems to be great concern with the idea of some original mistake, which causes later suffering-a kind of punishment for that mistake. One finds that a sense of guilt or being wounded is quite pervasive. Whether or not such people actually believe in the idea of original sin, or in God for that matter, they seem to feel that they have done something wrong in the past and are now being punished for it.

The problem with this notion of original sin or mistake is that it acts very much as a hinderance to people. At some point it is of course necessary to realize one's shortcomings. But if one goes too far with that, it kills any inspiration and can destroy one's vision as well. So in that way, it really is not helpful, and in fact it seems unnecessary.

According to the Buddhist perspective there are problems, but they are temporary and superficial defilements that cover over one's basic goodness (tathagatagarbha). This viewpoint is a positive and optimistic one. But, again, we should emphasize that this viewpoint is not purely conceptual. It is rooted in the experience of meditation and in the healthiness it encourages. There are temporary, habitual neurotic patterns that develop based on past experience, but these can be seen through. It is just this that is studied in the abhidharma, the Buddhist teachings on psychology: how one thing succeeds another, how volitional action originates and perpetuates itself, how things snowball. And, most importantly, abhidharma studies how through meditation practice this process can be cut through.

The attitude that results from the Buddhist orientation and practice is quite different from the "mistake mentality." One actually experiences mind as fundamentally pure, that is, healthy and positive, and "problems" as temporary and superficial defilements. Such a viewpoint does not quite mean "getting rid" of problems, but rather shifting one's focus. Problems are seen in a much broader context of health: one begins to let go of clinging to one's neuroses and to step beyond obsession and identification with them. The emphasis is no longer on the problems themselves but rather on the ground of experience through realizing the nature of mind itself.

When problems are seen in this way, then there is less panic and everything seems more workable. When problems arise, instead of being seen as purely threats, they become learning situations, opportunities to find out more about one's own mind, and to continue on one's journey.

Through practice, which is confirmed by study, the inherent healthiness of your mind and others' minds is experienced over and over. You see that your problems are not all that deeply rooted. You see that you can make literal progress. You find yourself becoming more mindful and more aware, developing a greater sense of healthiness and clarity as you go on, and this is tremendously encouraging.

---------------------

Justice in Buddhism is Karma, check out http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm

 

This is a very good question and one debated often by Christians-
So here is my belief-

The faith that saves (gets you to heaven) is not defined the same by Christians (heart of the problem). Because of misunderstandings there are questions on whether faith alone saves or faith plus works saves or works as faith saves, or even works alone save.

Two scriptures may come in to play when this is discussed-

Ephesians 2:8-10 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And

James 2:19-22 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Actually these two scriptures are in harmony and it is understandable if faith is understood and works is understood.

In speaking of salvation by faith in Ephesians chap. 2 Paul is pointing out that God saves us by grace through faith. Our own works or efforts cannot save us, they have no merit. (I can fully explain this is you like).

In speaking of faith and works James is pointing out that a faith that does not produce works is not the same faith spoken of in the Christian faith (Eph. 2) (That is because God's grace changes the heart through faith and moral choices come from the heart)

Just saying 'I believe in God' or 'I believe in Jesus' is not the faith that saves you.

Let me give you an illustration-

A man had strung a tight rope across the Snake River Canyon and a group of sightseers gathered with curiosity. The man asked "How many of you believe I can walk across the Canyon?" Several in the crowd shouted 'I do'.
The man then proceeded to walk the tight rope all the way across. On the other side another crowd had gathered.
The man asked the crowd how many of you believe I can walk back across the Canyon? The whole crowd shouted 'I do'. The man proceeded very carefully back across the Canyon.

Once on the other side the man asked (a much larger crowd) "How many of you believe I can walk blindfolded across this Canyon?" With an enthusiastic roar they shouted 'I DO!' The man carefully walked blind folded across the Canyon. On the other side he again asked the waiting crowd, "How many of you believe I can walk back across the Canyon blind folded?" They screamed enthusiastically 'I DO!' And the man walked blind folded back across the tight rope.

Once back on the other side the man picked up a wheelbarrow and asked "How many of you think I can push this wheelbarrow across the tight rope over the Canyon?" The crowd broke into applause and screamed, 'WE DO, WE DO, WE DO" The man took his time and pushed the wheelbarrow across the Canyon. The same thing happened on the other side and the man pushed the wheel barrow successfully back across the Canyon to the screams and cheers of people on both sides.

Once back he looked into the faces of the crowd cheering and asked them "How many of you believe I can push a person in this wheel barrow across the tight rope across the Canyon?" They were so excited and shouted again, 'I DO, I DO, I DO!"

The man then asked who would get in the wheel barrow and be first?

No one moved or said a word. They did not have the 'belief' or 'faith' that saves. The first one who got into the wheel barrow would be an illustration of what the Bible means 'saved by faith. That man would obviously be trusting the man to take him across the Canyon. That is how a Christian trusts Christ to get him to heaven.

Because salvation is God's work, (Jesus Christ saves us not the faith) then faith becomes the condition for man to receive the salvation God has promised through Jesus Christ. The faith that God approves results in the changes to the heart that the Holy Spirit makes that will produce the kind of character and life that James spoke of. If a person's life does not match the words then you must question if God is doing the heart work. And you must question what was meant when everyone shouted, I believe.

Who is in the wheelbarrow?

There are logical reasons why works cannot save a man.
There are logical reasons why faith does.
There are logical reasons why the faith that saves produces works.

That would take another time to share my own view there.

 

Thanks

 

When I say something more practical, this is what I mean:

From today's Yahoo News: http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051...mZiVM2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-


Meditate on This: Buddhist Tradition Thickens Parts of the Brain


Meditation alters brain patterns in ways that are likely permanent, scientists have known. But a new study shows key parts of the brain actually get thicker through the practice.

Brain imaging of regular working folks who meditate regularly revealed increased thickness in cortical regions related to sensory, auditory and visual perception, as well as internal perception -- the automatic monitoring of heart rate or breathing, for example.

The study also indicates that regular meditation may slow age-related thinning of the frontal cortex.

"What is most fascinating to me is the suggestion that meditation practice can change anyone's gray matter," said study team member Jeremy Gray, an assistant professor of psychology at Yale. "The study participants were people with jobs and families. They just meditated on average 40 minutes each day, you don't have to be a monk."

The research was led by Sara Lazar, assistant in psychology at Massachusetts General Hospital. It is detailed in the November issue of the journal NeuroReport.

The study involved a small number of people, just 20. All had extensive training in Buddhist Insight meditation. But the researchers say the results are significant.

Most of the brain regions identified to be changed through meditation were found in the right hemisphere, which is essential for sustaining attention. And attention is the focus of the meditation.

Other forms of yoga and meditation likely have a similar impact on brain structure, the researchers speculate, but each tradition probably has a slightly different pattern of cortical thickening based on the specific mental exercises involved.

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This isn't just some New-Age fruit. This is the real deal.