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Why is everyone so high on Golden State's players?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Hydra, May 21, 2001.

  1. Dirt

    Dirt Member

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    Good post,Swopa. I always thought Hughes got an undeserved bad rap. I wish he was still here in Philly!!
     
  2. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Swopa-Let's give it some more time.

    Hughes is 5-12 from 3 point land, Griffin is 5-10.

    Anyhow, Hughes's assist to turnover ratio looks even uglier than Francis's rookie year. 5.3-3.14, and that's with that nice 10 assist 0 turnover game. His last 4 games he's had 4 TO or more.

    And as it pertains to the Rockets, he's still not as good as Mobley (or Francis if you're calling him a PG now). :)
     
  3. WoodlandsBoy

    WoodlandsBoy Member

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    I've been watching the GS Warriors this year and I have to say I am really impressed with their players. Their coach sux but they have really good players and great balance.

    Fortsons a beast, that guy gets all the rebounds in traffic with his size. I don't think the guy can jump either he just out muscles everyone.

    Murphy is by far the best rookie player so far. If he could just get some PT he would win ROY easily.

    Jamison is over hyped. He is good but not even GS best player. Way over paid.

    Richardson is going to be a good player but he is also overrated currently.

    Hughes sux as a point guard. Blalock should be starting...

    Dampier, Foyle, Mills, Fortson, and Jackson have got to be the deapest front court with tons of muscle and rebounding. They are outrebounding everyone. If they get good guard play from Hughes, Richardson, Sura, and Blalock they are going to the playoffs no doubt. Lets hope for some injuries here because I think they are going to be tough.
     
  4. Hydra

    Hydra Member

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    First, I would like to say I feel all warm and fuzzy inside because this is the first time one of my threads has been brought up out of obscurity. :)

    Second, while I still disagree on Hughes being a good player and I think we will soon see his %ages plummet, it sure looks like I called it with Jackson. If he had skills anywhere close to his hype he would certainly be able to get more PT than he is, bad blood or no. I am exstatic that the deal fell through and we got Willis instead.

    Finally, it looks like I missed my mark, the Grizz are the Clippers of the new Millenium.
     
  5. WoodlandsBoy

    WoodlandsBoy Member

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    Don't get too high on yourself, Jackson is a good player but with Murphy, Fortson, Foyle, Mils and Dampier they have enough quality big men that they don't need Jackson. Murphy and Fortson are unbelievable.

    Willis is better for us today but come next year when we had a young player under a long term contract to trade, it would have been better.
     
  6. Swopa

    Swopa Member

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    NIKE -- Yes, Hughes' assist-TO ratio needs to improve, but that's moving the goalposts.

    The charge against him from you and others was that he couldn't shoot, had no conscience, etc. He doesn't have to become John Stockton to prove that charge false.

    If he's touching the ball on nearly every possession but only taking half as many shots per game -- and making a dramatically higher percentage of the shots he does take, both from inside and on the perimeter -- that shows he's both improved his shooting ability and has developed much better shot selection ... something the posters in this thread implied would never happen, much less occur in a single offseason.

    Could his percentages drop? Of course. I said he had two problems last year -- lack of strength, and lack of a clear role in the offense. He's still a scrawny pup, so he could taper off physically as he did last year (when he shot 35% on 3-pointers in the preseason, then horribly during the regular year). And a recurrence of the Warriors' infamous luck with injuries could put an excessive burden on him again offensively.

    On the hopeful side, the depth of the (surprisingly) healthy GS roster so far is helping Hughes enormously. With a 10-man rotation, he doesn't have to play 38-40 minutes, and there are enough offensive options that he doesn't have to go driving into the paint trying to make something happen -- and usually getting slammed to the floor -- on every other play. Guarding PGs instead of SGs also lessens the pounding he has to withstand on the other end of the court.

    Oh, and about that assist-TO ratio ... it may look "uglier than Francis's rookie year," but in fact it's slightly better. It's also fractionally better than Francis's assist-TO ratio this year (speaking of problems that haven't improved ;) ). And both, of course, are better than Mobley's assist-TO ratio.

    In addition, I can tell you honestly that in at least four of the last five Warriors games, Hughes has made several plays where he found teammates right under the basket, forcing the opponent to foul them (one reason GS is 3rd in the league in FT attempts with 33 per game, compared to 25 for Houston). So his progress as a PG is better than his assist-TO ratio shows.

    As I said on a Warriors board last night, Hughes may not be one of the top 10 starting PGs in the league yet, but he's not in the bottom 10, and I think he'll pass a lot of the guys in the middle before the season's over. :cool:

    Hydra -- Your statements on Hughes and Jackson boil down to, "It's too soon to admit I'm wrong, but not too soon to brag that I'm right." Nice double standard. :D
     
    #66 Swopa, Nov 11, 2001
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2001
  7. Hydra

    Hydra Member

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    While it could cetainly be seen this way, that is not what I meant. I do not doubt that he Jackson would be a servicable player for the Rockets. The problem is, the sentiment around this board by many posters was that he was almost the second coming. If he had been as good as advertised, he would be above guys like Foyle and Murphy on the depth chart. As a NorCal resident, I get the opportunity to see a few Warriors games from time to time. I only base my opinions on this matter on personal observation. Marc Jackson seemed like a man on a mission last year, probably because it was so hard for him to even make it into the league, the Mario Elie syndrome. I just didn't/don't feel that he can maintain that level.

    As for my comments on Hughes' shooting numbers, I look at them the same way I looked at Cat's 3pt% a couple of games ago. When the numbers are much higher than they were previously, I expect that they will drop as the sample size grows larger. While I could certainly be wrong on both of these points, I would still rather have Cat and Willis right now. Especially taking contract situations into consideration.
     
  8. Hydra

    Hydra Member

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    Wow, Hughes sure is showing everybody the goods this season. (FG% 42 3pt% 22) HA HA HA HA HA HA. :D Oh yeah, 15-38. :cool:
     
  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Jamison has a number of strengths: quick hops, a nose for the basket, good rebounder (especially on the offesnive boards). He has also improved his outside shooting. He has a number of weaknesses too: horrible defender, sulking attitude, disappears in games (no where near a "go-to player"), isn't particularly creative as a player (doesn't crate well off the dribble, doesn't move well without the basketball); isn't particularly good dribbling or passing the ball. And while he has improved his outside shot, he still isn't a good outside shooter. Compared to players in his draft class (Pierce, Carter, Dirk, Peja, Marion, Bibby, maybe even Raef) he has been slow to develop and a bit of a disappointment. And, its a challenge finding a position for him, and finding a forward to complement him. And he will be getting the first year of his max contract.

    Hughes strengths: fairly fast for a 6-5 guard, shows some ability moving the ball, pretty long which allows him to rebound and gets his hands in passing lanes, and can drive pretty well. Weaknesses: makes horrible decisions (drives into defenses without knowing what he will do ones the defense collapses in on him). He is a horrible outside shooter. He is too slow to stay with PGs, and doesn't really defend Sgs well. And much like Jamison, its a challenge to find a position for him (PG? SG?). And his rookie contract expires this year.

    The player GSW fans now hang their hopes on is Jason Richardson, especially after his showing in the dunk contest and rookie all star game. He is now getting carte blance in minutes and access to the ball, and his numbers reflect it.
     
  10. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Golden State SOOOOOOOOOOO need to blow up their team, and the only players they should keep:

    Troy Murphy
    Gilbert Arenas
    Jason Richardson
    Adonal Foyle (backup)
    Sura (backup both G spots)

    Play all 3 regularly. Let go of the rest on FIRE sale. I'm sure you can get 2 starters and a draft pick for the rest of the team. The Knicks would be more than happy to take Jamison. Dampier, Jamison and Mookie for Ward, Camby, Othella and first rounder 2002.

    Then with the rest of the team, pickup as many draft picks/expiring contracts as possible. Who's to say in 2003 Kidd and Payton won't want to re-unite in Oakland if your slightly competitive?
     

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