Why is everyone against upgrading at PG (in the near future)?

The benefit of a star wing player with passing ability is that it opens up the opportunity for being a good offense without a great PG. Wade was fine with a washed up Jason Williams and Gary Payton, Kobe won with Fisher...we just need our PG to be solid, whether that's Lin or someone else.

Offensively, we must have guys that can score when they are open. And, there are plenty of players out there that can do this. Sure, any primary playmaker will see a reduction in assist% playing with another primary playmaker but that shouldn't mean a reduction in overall production.

Personally, I'd like to see more of Lin before we entertain the idea of moving him. He was brought in because of his potential to be special so I'd have to know he won't improve to be better than the new guy to feel comfortable with the trade. Also, with the age of this team it probably only makes sense to get picks in return.

 

Double teaming a player at the top of the key or when they are in the full court is different then doubling a player in the pick & roll or shading the defense like teams normally do to prep for Harden. The Rockets need to find a way to counter this gameplan which is literally the same gameplan that took Harden out of the finals last year against the Heat. Just like there is a counter to the Zone defense, there is a counter to this defensive gameplan as well.

(Check out coachesclipboard.net. There is alot of good info on there. Used it alot when I used to coach to look counters to defensive sets & to get ideas for new plays, etc.)

When Harden is making a move to the basket and he brings another defender at him, he has the ability to find the open man consistently. OKC also ran this defense at Jeremy Lin when Harden was off the floor, and he also had issues countering this defense which led to alot of turnovers. Seems to me thats a Houston Rockets issue they need to work on in practice and not necessarily a single player issue. They need to address this in practice.

Still, if you know basketball you will know that doubling someone when they are bringing the ball up the court is a gameplan that is different then doubling a single player in the offense, or having the defense shade over to the "strong side" or the side of the court that Harden is facilitating the offense out of which would mostly be going towards his left side.

Pay attention to that next game to see what Im talking about. They will shade over the defense to run at Harden during the play easier, and double him on the drive out of the P&R. Also pay attention to Harden before he makes his move the basket. He will wait for a cut by another player. He is waiting for that cut because that players defender will have to run at him in the defense. So to make things simple for you... he's trying to get THE OTHER GUY an easy bucket.

Not sure how much more you guys want here from coach Dobro.

 

If this team ever gets serious a few years down the line, Parsons either needs to be traded or become a 6th man (Not a knock on him) but because the Rockets will NEED an elite perimeter defender to go up against the top shelf perimeter players in the playoffs (Durant, etc).

As for upgrading... Lin is an unfinished product. You give him time to see what you really have with him. The reason people talk about upgrading PF more is because Patterson is who he is and doesn't fit what this team needs at that position long term, which is a PnR player/Post player.

 

Hey dorboro I do disagree with you I don't think Harden is a better playmaker than Lin.

 

Talking about PF upgrade, we probably think of Al Jefferson, Millsap, Love?, etc.

PG upgrade... which players do you have in mind? I mean, who can be the top-20 starting PG that complements Harden? Do you think we can get Rondo?

 

I'm still thinking of when did fans here wanted no upgrade over Lin. I'm pretty sure all old Rockets fans would dump Lin in a second if CP3 or even Dragic/Lowry wants to come here. And the newer, Lin fans wouldn't mind if Lin went to a place where he doesn't have to deal with McHale, as evidenced by all those Fire McHale threads popping up earlier in the season.

Way to make a tl;dr post against something that never existed. At least you managed to create controversy when none existed. Good job!

 

Until Lin gets his shooting number to respectable number, there’s going to be continued hate for him. Look at the Toronto game threads, posting was down by 40 pages because Lin had a good shooting night.

Lin’s TS% = 0.456 while the league average is around 0.540, so to give perspective Lin would have to go 31-31 on 2’s just to get to the league average. Or to be little more realistic go 7-9 seven games in row just to get to the average. Last year Lin TS% = 0.552. Given the comments by shooting coach that even his bad days where better than his best day from previous off-season, it’s safe to say fan expect a better jump shot & 3pt shooting this year.

On top that he’s not getting to FT line which really hurts ability to improve TS%. On bright side he does finished at the rim 58.6% of the time. A little less than half his points have been from layups.

 

Rondo?? LOL, why does he want to leave Boston??

You think he will be happy to be a spot-up shooter here?? Like this is his greatest strength?? LAMO

 

Great. Im glad not everyone agrees with me. Life wouldn't be much fun if everyone did. Still, enlighten me on how Lin is a better play maker than Harden instead of just saying... "I disagree with you, Lin is a better play maker than Harden."

 

What is your definition of "playmaker"?

 

Someone that can create an effective offensive shot either for himself or a teammate outside of a traditional basketball play.

 

Oh excellent you are still here. I have my reason as to why. I am just trying to find some information on the internet before I post may take me a bit. I wasn't sure if you had signed off of clutch fans so I just figured I would post & wait for you to reply to see if you were here.

 

Sounds good. Remember you are trying to make a case that Jeremy Lin is a better playmaker than the guy that for two seasons was relied upon down the stretch of games to create shots for a team that also housed the likes of Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook all on the floor together at the same time. Im interested to see what you come up with that proves Lin is the better playmaker.

 

LOL @ Jimmer Comment. I meant that he is a spot up shooter. And no, I didn't say that he should start. I said Lin is better if you read correctly or all my posts.

 

He can be a good spot up shooter. Props to you sir.

 

LMAO. No pressure eh.

 

For those wondering about playmaking ability. Lets look at a couple things here about Harden and how he compares to Lin. The most run play in the NBA by point guards, and offensive facilitators in the NBA is the Pick and Roll. Lets see how Harden stacks up here-

Per AOL sporting news per synergy sports-

a deeper look at the numbers show where Harden is still desperately missed by the Thunder and why, when the playoffs come, his absence could be a big problem for OKC—Harden remains the most efficient pick-and-roll player in the NBA, and the Thunder have no one who can match him in that regard.

Last year, the Thunder were the best team in the league when it came to efficiency in plays in which the ballhandler in the pick-and-roll took a shot, averaging 0.894 points per possession. This year, they’re down to 0.654 points per possession, which ranks 27th. Overall, they run pick-and-rolls (including passes) 24.3 percent of the time, and their 0.918 points per possession rank 14th in the NBA. Last year, they ran pick-and-rolls 24.4 percent of the time and averaged 0.942 points per possession—good for fifth in the league.


Im pretty sure it didn't say "Other than Jeremy Lin" there. You can't even say that Durant and Westbrook really helped Harden's efficiency off the P&R because even on the Rockets, Harden is still the most efficient P&R player in the NBA.

What about his PER. Hmm... Jeremy Lin must have a higher PER than Harden.

Per John Hollinger-

His 21.89 PER is nearly a perfect match for the 21.13 he registered in OKC. If he keeps that up, it pretty much cements him as utterly deserving of a max contract; very few wing players ring up numbers anywhere close to what Harden has done. His PER ranks him second only to Kobe Bryant among shooting guards, and fifth overall among wing players -- behind only Bryant and the three luminary small forwards, LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Carmelo Anthony.


Again... no mention of Jeremy Lin even in this category...hmmm....

But oh wait... no mention of assists. Lets see another stat provided by Hoopdata called Assist percentage-

Lin 2012 (Knicks) - 23.4 %
Harden 2012 (OKC) - 49.5%


Should we keep going....


Look, Im rooting for Lin, and I think he has potential to be a perennial all-star in the league, but if you are trying to make a case that for some reason Harden should be deferring to Lin because Lin is the better playmaker.... come on. You're trying too hard to defend your guy.

However, you are missing the point. The Point is NOBODY is attacking Lin here. Its just that believe it or not, he's not Michael Jordan just yet, and has to work on his game a little bit. Nothing wrong with that. So do 99% of NBA players right now.

Everyone that roots for the Rockets should be rooting for Lin to succeed here. There is no reason NOT to root for him. Lets just put aside the Harden Vs. Lin debate for now though please. Its tiresome.

 

It is a different thing to consider aquiring cp3 or DWill versus aquiring Al Jefferson, Paul Milsap, or Josh Smith.

 

If that's your definition, then I agree. Harden is better at creating his own shot, however that's to be expected given his contract signing.

I would argue however that Lin is a better facilitator (floor general). I believe this is evidenced in passing stats this season and last season comparing Harden to Lin.

James Harden

2012/13 - http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU5.HTM
3pt assists - 24
Jump assists - 13
Close assists - 16
Dunk assists - 11
Total assists - 64
Passing T/O's - 22
Assist/Bad pass - 2.9
Passing Rating - 6.6
AST/48 - 6.2

2011/12 - http://www.82games.com/1112/11OKC7.HTM
3 pt assists - 78
Jump assists - 78
Close assists - 40
Dunk assists - 33
Total assists - 229
Passing T/O's - 62
Assists/bad pass - 3.7
Passing Rating - 6.0
AST/48 - 5.6

Jeremy Lin

2012/13 - http://www.82games.com/1213/12HOU2.HTM
3pt assists - 23
Jump assists - 14
Close assists - 24
Dunk assists - 18
Total assists - 79
Passing T/O's - 14
Assists/bad pass - 5.6
Passing Rating - 14.2
AST/48 - 8.7

2011/12 - http://www.82games.com/1112/11NYK3.HTM
3pt assists - 50
Jump assists - 60
Close assists - 64
Dunk assists - 41
Total assists - 215
Passing T/O's - 66
Assists/bad pass - 3.3
Passing Rating - 13.8
AST/48 - 11.0

Does that mean Lin should handle the ball more? I don't necessarily think that's the way to think about it. What I do think is that it means that Lin should initiate, then pass to Harden when it makes sense, but more importantly Harden should be more willing to pass the ball versus taking contested jumpers or becoming over aggressive versus double teams.

As the #1 scoring option, the ball will eventually work it's way back to Harden. As long as it doesn't get stuck there, I think that Lin will end up getting an appropriate number of opportunities to create.

Most importantly it means that Harden is trying nearly so hard to be the scorer AND facilitator at the same time. IE, not a singular point of offense.

Just some stuff to think about.

 

Assist % isn't the best stat to use. For example CP3 has a lower assist % than Lin does 22.1% vs 23.4% LOL.

I personally am not making this a Harden vs Lin thing. Never had never will. I can't speak for anybody else's feelings on this I am sure other people are wishing ill will on Harden.

Personally I was just asking for more balance in terms of playmaking duty. And i think we have started to see that a lot more. Particularly in the Raptors game which I am re-watching right now. I said from the very beginning that it should be a 60-40 or 50-50 relationship in terms of who is initiating the plays.

In the beginning of the season I think the coaching staff just wanted to acclimate Harden to his teammates so they put Lin in the corner. It was frustrating to see but I understood there logic. Now that Harden is familiar they have started to put the ball back in Lin's hands a lot more. Also I think it is no coincidence that as Lin has been working on his shot more the ball has been in his hands more. Anyway back to the Raptors game. Just a thought.