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Why Indiana's changing situation can solve our problems

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by houstonhoya, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. houstonhoya

    houstonhoya Contributing Member

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    http://www.indystar.com/article/20110125/SPORTS04/101250340/Pacers-guard-Ford-takes-latest-demotion-stride

    "When given a talented but plodding center to work with in Hibbert, O’Brien proved to be a traditionalist at heart, after all. The Pacers offense was restructured to feature Hibbert both in the high post and the low post, while Indy’s pace and 3-point attempts dipped accordingly. Hibbert played well, and for the first time in four seasons the blueprint for improvement in Indiana seemed clear.
    Since that point, however, Hibbert’s production has plummeted. After averaging 18.3 points and 10.0 rebounds a game in October and 15.6 points and 9.4 rebounds a game in November, Hibbert has dropped to just 7.8 points and 7.6 rebounds a night in January.
    Roy Hibbert’s stat production over the 2010-11 season.Rob Mahoney Roy Hibbert’s statistical production over the 2010-11 season.
    Hibbert scored 12 points Sunday night against the Denver Nuggets, but it was the first time he had reached that mark this month. For comparison’s sake, Hibbert topped 12 points in 10 of the season’s first 11 games.
    A closer look at Hibbert’s monthly splits reveals another interesting wrinkle: his minutes per game have dropped significantly in each month this season, which would seem to account for his regression from a quasi star to a role player. He played 21.8 minutes per game in January, a strangely low average given the Pacers’ lack of competent alternatives at center."


    5 interesting developments in indiana:

    1. clearly, hibbert's play has declined in indiana. he seems a bit frustrated, the coaching staff seems baffled, and the situation might turn tenuous. i know they said he was off limits to other teams two months ago, but this may quickly change, if it hasn't already.

    2. furthermore, o'brien is on the hot seat. he may not be back in indiana next year. i smell rebuilding..

    3. also, collison has turned out to be a disappointing acquisition, after excelling last year in chris paul's absence in NO.

    4. they want to get rid of TJ ford. they tried to buy him out for 3mil, he said no. they already have two young backup PGs they're comfortable with. the ford situation here.

    5. they were willing to trade granger, still are.


    AS SUCH, i think the pacers provide us with answers to our problems..

    hibbert is the defensive presence we so dearly lack. tall center, great shot blocking ability, size to plug the lane. he's got a good offensive game too.
    granger is the consistent scorer we desperately need, the go-to-guy with some semblance of star potential. he can create his own shot and is one of the more efficient wing players in the game. he's got superior size at his position, and oh yeah, he plays great defense.
    TJ ford is an expiring 8mil, certainly not a bad backup PG, great vision and leadership on the court, amazing passing skills and pace, just don't let him shoot the ball or guard bigger PGs, it gets ugly. oh, and he's a hometown kid, me like that.

    HOW WE can solve their problems..

    what they have now is not tenable, they have some good young players but the core is far from solid, the coach is in a very unstable position, hibbert and collison are not playing to their potential, they want to clear space, larry bird may not return next year (his contract is up and he's thinking about leaving), and lastly, they're in that "god damn it if we make the playoffs we play the HEAT and if we don't we get the LAST lottery pick" position, which we are very familiar with. that's no good, they won't get a franchise rookie next year and their playoff ambitions are futile. so, i suggest giving them cap relief, giving them picks, and giving them young cheap talent to help build a solid core. BROOKS IS A GREAT PLAYER, we all know that, despite his recent play and kyle's superior play. budinger and hill have great potential, small contracts, and play well together. yao's contract is pure gold to a rebuilding team, and, offering them draft picks gives them the key to rebuilding.

    here's a trade proposal:

    To Rockets (approx 21 mil)
    Granger
    Hibbert
    TJ Ford

    To Pacers (29 mil - 6 mil trade exception = approx 23 mil)
    AB
    Budinger
    Hill
    Jeffries
    Yao's contract
    2nd Rd 2011 Clippers Pick (most likely a top 7 2nd pick)
    Knicks 2012 1st Rd Pick
    Rockets 2014 1st Rd Pick

    i doubt they'd shoot that down. they would at least consider seriously.


    THAT GIVES US:
    Lowry/Twill/Ish
    Martin/Lee/Twill
    Granger/Battier/Lee
    Scola/Hayes/Patterson
    Hibbert/Miller/Hayes

    me like. you like?
     
    2 people like this.
  2. spaceage808

    spaceage808 Member

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    I thought bird mentioned they wanted to keep granger and try to add another super star. I don't see them biting. interesting thoughts though.
     
  3. spaceage808

    spaceage808 Member

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    Bird also said coach Jim O'Brien, despite the Pacers (16-25) having lost 15 of 20 games, will finish out the season and then be evaluated when his contract expires. And, while there have been rumblings Indiana's top player, forward Danny Granger, could be on the trading block, Bird said his desire is to retain Granger.

    "Danny's one of our integral parts,'' Bird said. "I don't really talk about Danny (in possible) trades. We'd like to add to him, try to get him some help. ... Danny's been been a good soldier. He knows what we're doing. We'd rather add to him.''

    http://nba.fanhouse.com/2011/01/24/indianas-larry-bird-eager-to-make-big-trade-undecided-on-futur/
     
  4. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    Seems to me that if the coach is on the hot seat, then you fire him and hire someone willing to play your young center with potential. You don't give up on a center capable of putting up 20,10 and 2 that easily.
     
  5. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Not happening for the same reason we aren't getting Cousins. Both of those teams will change coaches before they give up on their big men. Maybe if things continue to sour, but not now, not this season.
     
  6. ashishduh

    ashishduh Contributing Member

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    Yeah, the only time I can remember that kind of player being traded, it was considered one of the worst trades in NBA history and prompted an investigation.
     
  7. houstonhoya

    houstonhoya Contributing Member

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    i'd like to edit the trade proposal.. i realized that trading ford away wouldn't make sense for them since he's an expiring 8mil, instead they should trade posey away, who's making 6.5 mil this year and 7 mil next year.

    so..

    ROCKETS GET
    Granger
    Hibbert
    Posey

    PACERS GET
    Yao
    Aaron
    Bud
    Hill
    Jeffries
    The 3 Picks
    Trade exception
     
  8. houstonhoya

    houstonhoya Contributing Member

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    based on this trade, indiana would have cap relief in the form of:

    17 mil - yao ming
    10 mil - mike dunleavy
    7 mil - jared jeffries
    7 mil - jeff foster
    8 mil - tj ford
    5.5 mil - jamaal tinsley

    that totals to around 45 mil in cap relief starting july 1st. they would be in the best position among nba teams to sign 2 max free agents.

    not to mention the fact that they add a 6 mil trade exception, two promising young players in hill and budinger, and they would get insurance this year on yao's contract.
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    A solid big man on a rookie contract isn't gonna get traded.
     
  10. ashishduh

    ashishduh Contributing Member

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    I don't think you understand how TE works. It means the Rockets can acquire 6 million more than they give away, not the other way around. Unless you're saying Indiana has a 6 million TE.
     
  11. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    ab, Hill and Bud for Granger and Hibbert.

    Bird says %$#k you.
     
  12. houstonhoya

    houstonhoya Contributing Member

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    my mistake, you're right. though i think i do understand how a trade exception works, i wasn't thinking correctly.
     
  13. houstonhoya

    houstonhoya Contributing Member

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    AB, hill, bud, 3 picks, and a potential 45 mil in cap room? i say you and bird can blow me.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    Same with Lopez too. Generally speaking, that's the conventional wisdom you follow in these situations when dealing with a talented but underachieving 7-footer.

    McGee is maybe an exception to this rule given his off-the-court troubles coupled with his focus/work ethic issues.
     
  15. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

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    Interesting, I was under the same assumption after reading the article yesterday but Chad Ford had some nice tidbits in his chat today.

    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/36689/nba-insider-chad-ford

    This is VERY interesting and something the Rockets can accommodate.
     
  16. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    I'm not sure Pacers make this trade. Not sure this gets the Rockets out of mediocrity.

    Yes Hibbert would be a welcomed addition, especially on that contract, tons of potential. I might be in the minority regarding Granger, I just don't care for his game enough to think he's a difference maker.

    Rep'd for a well thought out post though.
     
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    -The Rockets do not have 3 picks to give unless they give away a 2014 1st rd. pick and a 2016 1st rd. pick. Remember you cannot trade 1st round picks in consecutive years.

    -Plus, Indiana's GM would get fired in a heart beat for making this deal. Yes lets trade our two best players for cost savings, 2 young role players, and a backup PG to Collison.
     
  18. houstonhoya

    houstonhoya Contributing Member

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    this trade abides by the stepien rule, you're not counting the picks correctly. you cannot trade rockets guaranteed picks in consecutive years. NYs pick was never a rockets guaranteed pick.
     
  19. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    This should be the end of the non sense. In fact, the pacers have 3 pretty good chips and are in the same boat as houston for the most part.

    Foster(6m), Ford(9m),and Dunleavy(10m) all expire after this season. They also have nice cheap players in Rush and CDR on their roster as well. Collison is struggling because they took the ball out of his hands which is a mistake.Those 3 expiring contracts can help them take on players at position other than pg,sf,and c. I dont know who they will shoot for, but they have some firepower if a team wants expiring contracts and players.The teams to really watch are pistons,mavericks,pacers,suns,and blazers.

    Every rumor possible about getting a guy from under a long term deal, dallas name will come up. They have been hurt big time by losing caron,but he's up at the end of the year and dallas doesnt care about the lux tax. I guarantee they will make a move before the deadline.
     
  20. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

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    GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANGER
     

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