Why Don't Liberal Feminists Fight for Muslim Women?

What do you mean by this? Surely you don't think that sexual assault between men and women is balanced in either direction.

 

There were 2 things I was trying to point out in Okierock's statement. One is that is not a racist therefore it can't be racism. While technically true, it misses the point that people are using race as a convenience because it's easier than saying "religious discrimination" - that's the rhetorical question I was asking when I said, ok, if it's not racism then you're saying it's ok to call Muslims x,y,z whatever.

The other thing was regarding the critique of Islam. People aren't critiquing Islam as in the text of the Koran, they are critiquing the people, that is Muslims, so why call it a criticism of Islam when in fact it's a criticism of Muslims - it's just a weird type of political correctness. There is legitimate criticism of Islam, but much more often it is hatred wrapped under that guise.

 

Correct. But it is a question. What Lou posted was in totality not a question, but totally put words in okierock's mouth. You did not address that. Instead, you tried to white-knight Lou's posts by interpreting them in a way that is much more benign than what was actually said.

I totally get what you are talking about, only that that is not what Lou said.

 

I generally try not to take people's words at face value, especially on an Internet forum (as opposed to spoken face to face) where it's easy to misconstrue one's tone if they don't literally mean what they say.

I assume "charitable" interpretations to your posts as well, in general. I try to do that with everyone.

 

An Ideology is a collection of beliefs held by an individual or group of people. I think we can all agree to that definition.

Is killing someone for leaving your religion evil?

If a group of people believes that people who have chosen their belief system and then later choose to leave that belief system should be killed and I challenge that belief as evil, am I calling that group of people evil? Would I be ok to do so?

Is killing someone for acting in a manner that you believe your God judges as evil evil?

If a group of people believe that their God gives them the right to judge your actions as evil and kill you for those actions and I call that belief evil, am I calling that group of people evil? Would it be ok to do so?

Donald Trump believes in building a wall, does that make him racist? Can I call him a racist? A whole lot of people are doing just that. People are calling everyone who supports Trump a racist, is that ok?

 

TL;DR Third-wave feminism sucks. Bunch of average-looking, racist white chicks guffawing about first-world problems (but really though)

 

Killing anyone for any reason other than self defense or to prevent harm is wrong.

A poll is not the same as actually doing the dead. It's an alarming poll that raises questions but not everyone answered that pool the same way. I am not going to label a portion of a region evil for a poll answer. And the portion that answer that poll do not represent the entire group. My issue is that people say since a lot of people in a poll believe in apostasy they are also the cause of terrorism and therefore Islam is evil. This thinking is used by some ignorant people to justify attacking Muslims who have nothing to do with hurting other people. That's what bothers me

No it does not make him a racist it makes him an opportunist who does not mind capitalizing on racism. His followers are the ones who are either bigots or are willing to overlook that he appeals to bigots.

 

I think you missed the point. I'm not talking about a poll. I asked if a person or group believed that leaving their religion is a valid reason for killing someone would it be ok to say that person is bad/evil/wrong?

IMO it would be wrong NOT to say that is bad/evil.

Nice to know that you think Trump followers are bigots...most people might say that is a VERY bigoted thing to say.

 

There is no single text or verse in Quran allow/recommend /encourage to kill a converted X-Msulim or to prosecute gays. It's the opposite : freedom of faith is often emphasized repeatedly in many verses.

 

Then how do you explain this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ty-to-man-who-renounced-his-Muslim-faith.html

 

There is no Quran justification to this .its unfortunate judge opinion ,You kill a guy and you get 5 years for man slaughter or you could just waive a weapon and you get harsher jail time.

BTW, most judges are under achievers in religious studies ,most people try to avoid this profession as it was stated in Hadith...that many they will face severe punishment for any injustice caused to innocents

 

Then what is your data source for saying that Muslims believe in Apostasy, if not the pew poll? What I see here is you have a tendency to see things in black and white and group everyone into one group.

Are you saying all Islam is wrong because some percentage believe in death for those who leave the religion, even though there is a significant percentage that don't believe this? How do you pick which group gives a religion its label? Thats' what I am talking about - not whether or not apostasy is wrong.

And you did it again - I never said all followers are Trump are bigots. I said some of them are. Why do you take that and turn it into a generalization? How does saying some portion of Trump followers are bigots make me a bigot?

 

Is Sharia law Islamic Law?

 

In the sense that the founder of the religion explicitly wanted government and religion to be the same thing. There is no notion of separating religion and governance in Islam and Muslim apologists don't understand that THAT specifically is what makes Islam a bane to western society.

And here comes the "but Christians" crowd... Little do they know that the most venerated figure in Christianity had some strong opinions against the state and religion being one entity. The concept of 'personal relationship with your god' is a prevalent concept in the New Testament.

 

So you are saying that we can't criticize the ideology that would justify killing apostates?

I didn't say that you said all Trump supporters were bigots...(I think you believe that) but I didn't say that.

 

What is the ideology? You are defining an ideology and then criticising it - that's my point. You are reading the Koran and saying "hmmmmm since I read it this way (which is a translation by the way) then I criticize it." (that's not your actual quote I know - rhetorical device). You can do that with the bible too.... but that's not criticizing Christianity it's criticising the Bible. The ideology isn't uniform. There are different schools and different practitioners subscribe to different tenets of what they believe Islam to be. Just as Catholics and Protestants have differences and even within those groups different churches might have differences. So when you say "I criticize the Ideology" what you are really doing is "I am going to generalize all the interpretations of Islam into my interpretation and then criticize that"

That sounds like it to me.

 

You have to define what is Shira law first. Is it the common misconception spreads around or is it an accurate description.


Most noticeably those critics to Islam , or members of ISIS alike are clueless over this subject.



The civil law under Islam is mainly mandatory to every "Muslim" only.
Cases like distribution of inheritance , mandatory waiting period before remarriage and such.


Example: a man died and left certain amount of $. And he donated most of his wealth to charity. Under Islamic law that's will be handled as follow:

Only 1/3 of wealth can go to charity, every 1st degree relative get a certain portion of it.


Other cases like civil dispute courts where it's compatible to what's done in the west.


Then you to the criminal code set of laws and quite surprisingly it's elective set of law for public Liability.

For example. Someone stole money, used weapon to force his way.had no criminal history, you think his hand would be chopped!

Most likely not , if motivation was based on excessive needs and other consideration which the judge can elect to set that person on probation .even if the entire criteria met, maximum punishment hardly applied. It's based on principles to deter crimes but met with multiple excusable causes not to execute it.

For instance : unless a person acknowledge full awareness and give a voluntary confession then max. Punishment cannot be applied .


As you see, it's wide interpretation,handled in different manners.to this day law in general require two parties to agree to certain arbitration and courts laws decided based on level of disputes and experts tradition


A case from Shira law:

if a muslim goes to a non muslim country, should he follow the law even its against his religion ,the answer : you honour their laws completely or Leave to somewhere else.