Thanks for trying to be the voice of reason Jeff. I usually learn something from your posts, even if "Jeff", "16800 posts", and "Clutch Crew" gain you no street cred in this forum. But to reiterate, if Yao is setting picks, it's because that's what JVG wants him to do. I don't want Yao fighting for post position every damn play down the floor, because a Yao tired from fighting for position would be ineffective when we call plays for him. So if you want to b**** about Yao setting picks, b**** about the coaching - but do so in the knowledge that 98% of the members here don't have 10% of the bball knowledge and bball IQ of JVG. Instead of complaining about our offense, why don't you spend the time watching a game tape and try to understand it? Perhaps some stuff is happening away from the ball and the basket that you haven't been paying attention to. That being said, I'm sure our team could use Yao's pick more effectively, but how can they learn without trying?
I agree that Yao needs to establish his position inside. 24-23-22-21 - Rockets move up the Court! - 20-19-18-17-16 Yao Sets a pick - 15-14-13-12-11 Ward passes to Yao. 10-9-8-7 Yao passes back outside 6-5-4-3-2 Yao gets the ball ehhhhhh!!! Shot clock violation
Yao and others need to be more effective setting picks. Right now the picks are pretty much formality. The good ones only happen between Yao and JJ.
I think Yao first needs to get his jumper back, then gets picks set for him to catch and shoot. No more creator only BS. This team struggles to score points.
It's a damn shame that the only good ontopic posts in this thread are being ignored. for all you guys b****ing and moaning about this...go back and read Jeff and Gutter Snipe's posts....they explain quite well the purpose of setting picks, even if you dont understand or see the effectiveness...they set picks for a reason...and it isnt always readily apparent why unless you are a student of the game...which judging from the posts in this forum, we have very few of . VG has Yao doing it for a reason....and I trust his judgement waaaaay more than some of yall's.
I have noticed that the team in general just doesn't set good picks period. It's like they are setting pseudo-picks, just going through the motions. They hardly ever seem to give a serious advantage to the ball handler.
It's predictable. It doesn't always appear to be very affective. But then I'm just one of those "Yall's".
He [as well as Mo T and Bizzarro Mo T] seem to pick up some pretty stupid pathetic Offensive fouls out there from time to time Rocket River
Don't care about the cred, just wish more people had taken Basketball 101 so they would understand some of the fundamental elements of playing the game. It is like trying to explain why you can't just heave the ball into the low post against a complex defense and everything will work out. People often just don't get it and don't want to make the effort to get it so, eh.
Yeah, I know there has to be a reason, but I can't find one, besides he is trying to get Yao in better shape. There's a reason why my wife used to cut both ends off the ham before she cooks it too. (Because her mother and grandmother did it. Of course, Grandma's pan was too small) We rank amateur students of the game are doubting the reasoning on this one especially since most normal people feel that anybody could throw a ball out amongst 5 NBAers, especially our starting 5 and get 80 PPG out of them...........................especially against that jugernaut defensive force of a Nets team. 80 is 10 more than 70, an improved offensive output of some 14%..........of course that's students of the game talk, who would want to increase production anyways? Let's think like the pros and decrease offensive production and work harder on the defensive end............because we trust the pros. How many points do you think that Rudy could get out of these guys? How many picks did we see Ewing running around and setting in New York? Can you remember one? Please, come up with something better this canned "I trust the coaches judgment better than yours" lame excuse. If you can't see that we have way too many posessions where we do not get the ball to Yao at all or we get it to him with 3 seconds left on the shot clock, then you may be a bind student of the game. I'll trust someone with eyes. We have plenty of people to set picks on the perimeter. We don't need Yao out there running around so he can get open for a 17 footer. Let Mo set the picks and can the 17 footer or throw the ball to a posting Yao down low. Trust me.
Ok, genius. Let me just take this a little at a time. First, Rudy's teams NEVER ranked towards the top of the league in scoring. He and JVG were cut from a very similar mold and stressed defense first and limiting possessions second. What that means is that they both believe very strongly in the points-per-possession statistic that rewards teams that slow the pace of the game down, reduce the number of possessions of each team, produce points efficiently and limit the effectiveness of the other team's first offensive option. It is a formula emplyoed very succesfully by teams like San Antonio and Detroit as well. They just happen to have better, more experienced teams than we do. So you understand the point of running a screen, I'll explain one play and then you just keep in mind that there are probably 25 others very similar to this one in the Rockets' playbook and each one has as many as 10 different options. ---- Take the simple high screen and roll. In this scenario, you have T-Mac at the top of the key, Yao setting the pick and the rest of the team spaced around the three point line with the exception of the forward who is on the low block on the opposite side from the screen. When T-Mac goes around the pick, Yao drops into the low box, T-Mac reverses and uses a SECOND screen from the power forward to the opposite side. While this is happening, Jackson (or whoever the two guard is) is getting a back screen from Yao to pop out to the opposite side three point line and the point guard is running his man by Yao - who is blocking the point guard's defender from following - to clear to the same side of the floor as Yao. T-Mac then has the option to give the ball to the point guard, pass it in to Yao, hit the power forward who is now at the top of the key (who can, in turn, take the shot or hit Yao rolling accross the middle of the key) or go back down the lane to the center either going all the way to the hole or passing off to the two guard on the opposite side. ---- That is a single play that begins with the high screen and roll between T-Mac and McGrady and ends in multiple options depending on the defensive adjustment. And, of course, every offensive play is predicated on adjusting to the defense on the floor. Now, keep in mind that every screen contains numerous potential options based on the defense. If one isn't open, you go with another. JVG doesn't want this team to take shots with 15 seconds left on the clock. He wants to LIMIT possessions like most of the defensive-minded coaches in the league who learned that from guys like Pat Riley and Doug Collins. He wants the clock to be around 6 seconds when they get an open shot. If a shot comes open before that, great. But, the play is designed to start around 16 seconds and end around 5 seconds. Oh, and Ewing ran a ****load of screens in New York, particularly with Allen Houston. I remember quite a few of them. No one is handing you a lame excuse of siding with the coach. Some of us just don't want to take the time to explain a complex issue when you clearly seem to believe you already have the problem solved.
Jeff just did a bangup job of descibing it better than I ever could. read it. then read it again and again.. however many times it takes you to get the basic idea of using multiple picks(from different players) to attempt to get a clear shot for virtually guaranteed points. I dont pretend to be a genius at this, but I did at least play organized ball...and I also have had the advantage of listening to (reading) discussions about the more technical aspects of basketball in the early days of this site from a bunch of real smart guys(see the above post for a example)... there is more to the game than just get the ball and shoot. On all levels of competition.
Running the clock out is a pu%sy game. JVG is a poor-man's Mike Fratello. end anti-JVG, anti-coward strategy sludgeball rant. --------------------- Jeff, I respect you, but you're making excuses. This is an obvious problem. The question here isn't about multiple picks and rubs. You threw that in. Sure, that's beautiful basketball. We can all go look at that Croatian playbook site with the animations of Utah plays. Great. But that's not the question. The question is about the basic use of Yao. Where is Yao most effective? Does that play maximize his skill set? Or does it needlessly put him in foul trouble? Do you want him pushing out to the top of the key, then lumbering back to the post? Why not use his shooting touch? Why not use his passing?
Just to show proper respect for your POV - could you please illustrate the way that play is supposed to work? Just describe what you think ought to happen, how that effects the game. I know I will learn something, and it will improve the discourse. TY p
In the last game in particular, Yao was freed by the screen and took a jumper near the top of the key. Also, I eventhough it's a bit difficult to observe, I think that Yao's setting the screen actually helps him establish position down low. For instance, Yao sets the screen for McGrady, and McGrady curls right, passes to T. Lue who is near the 3 point baseline. All the while, Yao moves into position on the right low block to recieve the post pass from T. Lue. Yao's defender was forced to respect McGrady quick step which in turned allowed Yao to get a step on the defender to establish better position.
Tick..................................Tick.....................Tick ..............4..................3................2...............1................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Wait a minute, how come Spoon has the ball at the top of the key? Jeff, the only pick that Yao sets that works is that pick at the top of the key with Tracy. If that is the one that he sets, I'm okay with that. But it's not. I saw Yao out at the 3 point line last night and the game before setting picks so Ward and Lue can get a step and dribble. They then swing the ball to the opposite corner and Yao went running over there to set a pick on that defender. That don't make sense man. I'll take the pick from Yao at the top of the key, and DROPPING INTO THE LOW BOX. For goodness sake, don't run him to the opposite corner. It's r****ded and it winds up in bad, low percentage, last second shots from our non star players. Ewing was not running around 3 point land setting picks. Top of the key and in the paint, yes. Keep Yao in there and our offense will improve. I know JVG stresses defense and limiting posessions. You do that on the other end of the floor. You play good D and make the opponent waste the shot clock and get a bad shot. You limit their posessions, but scarfing the glass. But you don't limit your own posessions and the effectiveness of your own posessions by having your post man in the wrong position to play the post, and getting the ball too late in the shot clock. You want our points per posession to improve, let Yao post up in the paint and get him the ball early, or run that pick and roll with TMac at the top of the key, not at the time line. And if Yao sets one pick, get him the ball, don't have him go set 3 more picks. Come on Jeff, I love you man, but you gotta see we are having way too many bad offensive posessions.
I believe most of us KNOW what picks are for in basketball. The bottom line is to create space and open shots for your teammates. Of course, there are many ways in setting them up, but it doesn't take a basketball genius like JVG, , to know that there are good and bad picks. It's totally legit for the original poster to question the effectiveness of Yao's FREQUENT high picks in the context of our offensive flow. I wonder how many 7 footers in this league would actually spend as much time as Yao does in setting up those picks. One also needs to know the limitations of his players. Yao's stamina is still a problem. He is supposed to be one of our top 2 scorers. I certainly don't think it's a good idea for Yao to spend half of his time setting up picks for others and picking up stupid fouls. Yao is SLOW, in case you haven't noticed. Yao is simpily not good at rolling to the basket and catching the ball at the same time. And we rarely have Yao to take an open 15 footer from most of those picks. JVG might have all these wonderful offensive schemes that only some of you with high IQ basketball know-hows would notice, , but it doesn't take a genius, like us, to SEE that they haven't been that effective, definitely not pretty to watch most of the times. More often than not, the defender wasn't fully screened off, we ended up taking a not-so-wide-open jumper, and Yao was "nowhere" in sight for rebound. In the two games Yao has dominated so far this season, Yao has set the least picks compared to in other games. The games Yao sucked the most in his career so far have been the ones he spent much of his times setting up pick, away from the paint. No wonder his rebounds in those games were PATHETIC.
Thank you gotoloveit2 ...I couldn't have said it better myself. Jeff ...we totally understand what your trying to say and I'm just saying that Yao setting these high picks are just for the most part ineffective.
Because when he got position, his guard decided not to pass to him and Yao have to go out to set pick! He wants to contribute to his team instead of standing there like a stick!
