You do realize that the Jewish lobby in America is overwhelmingly Democrat, not Republican, right? Traditionally, Republicans (particularly conservatives) have not been supportive of Jewish causes, while Democrats have. Democrats are the one's, in this case, putting more heat on Sharon than on Arafat, yet they are the one's funded by the Jewish lobby. Your theory is flawed.
Thank You Jeff, I think all of this talk of who is to blame is not what I wanted to start. There are enough threads about that. My statement is that there is BLOODSHED all over the world, why are we so enamored and focused on this small part of the world. I'm just sick of my tax money going to Israel or these Arab Nations so they can fight each other. I have a loyalty to the UNITED STATES, and I think this deters from where US foreign policy should lie. Do we recieve any economic gain by being involved in the Palestinian/Israeli Struggle? No. If anything we are adversely affected because of the animosity towards western goods felt by Arabs because of our Israeli Support. The Oil issue is only around because we support Israel otherwise it would be a buyer and seller scenario and prices would probably by lower. MY QUESTION IS WHY ARE WE SO INVOLVED?? If we stopped the flow of money to Israel and these Arab countries then they would listen. Based on a population of 300 million in the US, every year every american sends $10 to Israel, a country the size of Rhode Island with a population the size of Houston that equates to about $1000 per person!! WHY ARE WE SENDING ISRAEL $1000 for everyone in that country??? I'm not sure of the figures but we are also supporting Egypt, Jordan and other countries and we see how these Arab "royals" live, driving 10 different color Rolls Royces and Having Parties for Playboy Bunnies on my tab?? Hell No! This is an age old conflict and I don't know why we are in the Middle. It makes no sense.
Thank you Jeff. I must be backwards though... I am Jewish Democrat who supports Israel's policies.. looks like I fit no where
I think Jeff has a point, but there are many US Jewish Groups that do not Agree with Sharon's policies and his actions. Just as in Islam, there are extremist Jewish Groups that plotted to Kill a US Congressman of Arab Descent and Burn a mosque before they were caught as members of Meir Kahane's group. A jewish extremist was responsible for the Assasination of Israeli P.M. Rabin in Israel as well. There are divisions within the Jewish community as well. Many are for Sharon's violence and many are against it. I'm sure many pro-Jewish/Israel congressmen are weighing their words carefully. It is hard to fathom that Lobbying groups with enough funding could allow outside entities to have significant control on the outcomes of congressional/legislative decisions.
Yeah, you're right. Why just the other day, as I was handing a $10,000 check to Tom DeLay, I said "Yo Tom. Can't you do something about that silly situation in the Middle East? And while you're at it, let's finish light rail in Houston, dammit!" The Jews fund politicians. The Jews control the media. The Jews control the world banking system. Etc., etc. etc. ad nauseum. Azadre, I have a little advice for you. Get a life, and then get a clue. Peace...OUT!!!
Azadre,hang in there, baby, I've noticed a definite pattern on this board of going hardest after younger posters, particularly if they seem to be not "just plain Americans". It just drives some people bananas. The issue of whether most Jews are democratic or republican has become more muddled in recent years. A lot of the leading neoconservatives who try to push Bush to the right are Jewish Republicans. Clinton won back many of the Jews who started to defect to the Republican Party under Reagan. Many Jews like Alan Deshowitz who I just saw on Alan Keyes lst night are very liberal on virtually all issues except Israel. On that program he was down the line with Sharon. Arafat is bin Laden, is a terrorist. He (Dershowitz) is for peace and a Palestinian homeland, but if we give in to terrorism it will be the end of western civilization and we will have suicide bombers in the United States ((I'm not kidding about the western civ part and his trying to threaten us by saying not supporting Sharoh's invasion would lead to sudicde bombers in the U.S.)
I'm guessing the liberals on this thread support the Palestinians while the conservatives support the Israelis? I frankly could care less, but I think I'll side with the Isrealis on this one.
Frankly, I don't support either. I sympathize with the poor innocent people of Palestine who have nothing to do with the terrorists but are being forced to remain inside their homes without food or water under Israeli curfew. I also sympathize with Israelis who would rather have peace but are terrified that their next trip to the grocery store might result in them getting blown up. I think both sides' behavior is screwed up.
F.D Kahn, great observation. I didn't read all the posts. too many opinions too mull over. But if Afghanistan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, or whoever had their warships and bases on or near my land -- say near the mexican border, and were conducting training excercise in or near my country --well godamn I'd revolt too!!! I'd stop eating cheesburgers, and smoking weed and partying and worrying about getting laid, and instead be on the edge of my seat and deeply concerened about my familys welfare at all times. I wouldn't kill innocent civilians, but i'd take a definite stand. Now on the Isreal issue. I think it goes much deeper than that. i feel its just a endless history of mans confusion reaching the boling point. somewhere along the line mankind took a wrong turn in life and now my brothers are saying, 'hey you can't be comfortable over here in your little cozy corner and ignore me and my family, while we suffer; and are starved; and are repressed; and are lost -- your part of this whole mess too.' So it seems to me that its just an inward struggle, reaching its end. but the our chaos has to reach it max, maybe, before it can break through the wall of insanity and we can all truly see once again. maybe we need to get as far in the doldrums as we can before we can understand ourselves, and therefore, one another. PS. i had a few vodkas
I'd much rather go after you and your opinions than Azadre!! Nothing personal, though. What do you think a "just plain American" is?
RocketBooster, Thanks, i've got to admit, never heard it stated like that with the partying, cheeseburgers and weed, but the point is made. I just feel that every individual wants a few things, a home, a family, peace and some sense of self-being. When you have people that have lost all hope and desperation than these environments are nesting grounds for extremism. In regards to Israel stating peace will make them leave the territories: The Intifada (or violent uprising) that consists of throwing rocks and more extreme groups killing themselves, began fairly recently. They were hoping for a settlement for 30 years and then after being occupied for 30 years, they began to rise up. These children that are suicide bombers grew up in a Refugee camp for God's sake! Born, raised and living in a Refugee camp in tents with little to no food, water, or rights because the Israeli army bulldozed their homes to make a "Jewish" settlement. I for one would fight. What that makes me, I don't know, but as an American I feel I have certain unalienable human rights and will fight to get those rights. In the creation of Israel, many of the founders such as Menachim Begin were on interpol because of their numerous "terrorist" activities in order to scare people into creating the state of Israel. The Irony?
Thanks for the laugh, F.D. Menachem Begin and the Irgun, in their "numerous terrorist activities in order to scare people into creating the state of Israel" targeted and killed British soldiers. Do you think the state of Israel would even exist today if the Irgun targeted innocent civilians, especially women and children? Your analogy is a little far-fetched.
First of all, I agree with everyone that says that they are sick of the killings. I am too. Al Qaeda killing innocent American on 9/11, Palestinian suicide bombers killing innocent people, Israeli soldiers killing innocent people, it's all a waste of innocent life. I think that Israel has a right to defend against the terrorist suicide bombers by sending troops into Palestine, but too often, the Israelites shoot first and ask questions later. If the U.S. bombed blindly in Afghanistan, we'd have some serious problems on the home front. Military operations should target threats, and not whomever is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Furthermore, I can not understand why Israel will not leave the occupied land? Can't they see that it's more trouble than it's worth. Me thinks too much pride is involved here. Major, If I'm not mistaken, one of the main reasons why OBL is after us is because we continued to occupy Saudi after Desert Storm was over, even though it was Saudi that asked us to stay. He's pissed because we were occupying his Holy Land.
Sadly, every time on TV I see an Israeli defending the worst excesses of the Shraon/Peres invasion they justify it with you Americans did the same or worse in Afghanistan. I saw an Israeli say: "our military is the most moral in the world. We lost 13 reservists going door to door in order to avoid killing as many innocent civilians as possible. You Americans would never do that. You would have just used your bombers to flatten the camp and would not have risked any US casualties in order to avoid further cvilian casualties." (not exact quote) Unfortunately as an American I have no anwer for them.
