Why do people pray for someone?

Okay.

Wait, you just said he doesn't decide when someone is going to die. Now you're saying he DOES.

Really? Genesis 5:21-27

So, anything good that happens, it's God's will, and anything bad that happens is...what? Bad luck? The Devil? Is the universe God's creation or not? If the universe is God's creation, then aren't the "bad" things within it (cancer, earthquakes, tsunami, the Utah Jazz) His as well?

And, again, none of this addresses the original question: what is the purpose of prayer in circumstances where the outcome is already predetermined by God?

 

Referring to the topic at hand..

Prayer is essential in worship to God. As mentioned earlier in the thread, Jesus did tell his disciples to pray to God for a variety of things. Throughout the bible it encourages you to be a friend of God. Well how can you be a friend to God if you never talk to him? Prayer allows you to pour out your heart to God and its reasurring to know that he listens.

Read your bible people.

 

To follow up, the purpose of prayer is to petition God to act (at least in the example given)

Asking Him to do something is different than trying to change His mind.

 

But the whole point of this thread is: what about when there's no CHOICE involved? Nobody chooses to get panreatic cancer, but it happens every day. If all of existence is the domain of God, that includes pancreatic cancer. Petitioning Him is just spinning your wheels: according to Christian dogma, He has already decided who will live and who will die.

Can you direct me to a particular verse? I don't have the time to re-read all the Psalms at the immediate moment.

Such as?

Okay: so why does pancreatic cancer happen?

The first straight-forward answer this thread has seen, though I don't see any misunderstanding on my part. Can you direct me to the verse that shows that "little is predetermined by God".

Except when there's no choice involved. Concordently. Vis a vis. Ergo. :grin:

But what if what you're asking for is contrary to his "will" (or plan, or whatever euphemism you want to pick)? Aren't you really trying to change His mind?

 

I don't know why anyone does it, but I do know now that when I was desperate for someone important to continue to live, I prayed just so I could say I did everything I possibly could.

To me it's like breaking an object when you're angry. It doesn't necessarily solve the problem, but you need an outlet.

 

I will need to do that at home, I can only get in a quick take at the moment, I will do that later, thanks

 

My question is does god have the power to change the world events.

if god does then obviously on many terrible occasions god chose not to act.
This I do not understand. A less kind imperfect normal person would act if he/she has the power.
This led me to think the all powerful, infinitely kind god most likely does not exist.

 

God could control everything, but that is what He has designed people to do. He provides influence to do good not evil.
God has delayed judgment of all that is terrible and evil in the world to give people the opportunity to change and do good.

This is a great over simplification, but God will clean this mess up for good at the right time.

 

It is all about faith, If you pray without faith nothing will happen.

"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it, and it will be yours.
~ Mark 11:22, 24

Build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ.
~ Jude 20-21

Most people who pray lack faith and reading a lot of post in this thread it seems a lot of people don't believe in God at all. That is really sad.

"I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, "Move from here to there" and it will move."
Matthew 17:20

"If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believeth."
Mark 9:23

 

what about stuff like earthquakes and tsunamis? i don't understand what God is trying to do by letting those sorts of things happen. maybe at a relief benefit someone gets saved? their heart is changed? that's the rationale my dad uses. it's great and all, but jeez, that's a lot of collateral damage, even if a few good things happen from it. when somebody says "look at all the beauty and order in the world, how can we not have a creator?" - i think to myself, look at all the CHAOS. innocent people are wiped out in DROVES all the time.

i mean, dying early after years of alcoholism and drug abuse...that i understand. we have free will. we are swayed by our choices. but what is "God's will" when 200,000 people die in a tsunami? sounds like they just got the short end of the stick.

 

It is not God's will that 200,000 people die in a disaster.
God is not pleased at all with death and takes a view of things from a more precise eternal perspective that is good and just.

I disagree completely with your Dad's take on the good that comes out of it... that is a cop out IMO

It is true that God can help good come out of bad, but He doesn't like bad to come so that a little good results.

There are many disasters, sufferings, and tragedies that befall the innocent and God grieves over it.

God does not intervene as much as most Christians think He does.

He could prevent every evil, but that type of intervention would entirely remove free choice. Free choice is the basis of love. Love must be free and a choice.

If God were to intervene more it would also remove man's most noble characteristic the ability to overcome evil with love.

This is the entire message of Jesus- to suffer severely at the crucifixtion overcoming evil, hate, injustice with love.

Those who suffer deeply and love deeply greatly reflect God.

Jesus told his disciples that by suffering deeply even to death to love someone else would clearly indicate a true disciple.

Christians who love God deeply love others deeply, enough to take action to go to the poor of the world and help them.

 

Agreed. I am not a religious advocate by any means, but rhester has done a nice job throughout this thread.

It's really not that hard to understand, though I feel that understanding, as in most religious threads, was not the real intent.

 

I think the answer to your question has been implicit in nearly every one of his answers: those who pray seek divine intercession in the normal order of the universe that "He" set in motion, left to free will, but can choose to intercede or change if "He" feels like it.

Do I agree that it works? No. I would need to be a believer to even consider this reality.

Am I right? I don't know.

Does it make a difference either way? Maybe, maybe no

 

drox:

i think rhester has done a commendable job giving you his view.

but I don't think he can give you an answer that will fully satisfy you.

Some might say you have to find that answer for yourself...