Why do I keep hearing this team isn't good enough with Yao?

We be a playoff team for sure, but not contenders. How much better would this team be with Yao? Not much better I say that. Yao is a good player indeed but he also has so many weaknesses that will be exposed especially in a best out of 7 playoff series. In the playoff, teams would study Yao closely and figure a way to slow him down big time.

Plus if the Rockets want to be contenders, Yao should not be our best player. Look at the contenders in the NBA right now:

Lakers: Kobe Brayant (The Best SG in the NBA)
Cavs: Lebron James (The Best SF in the NBA)
Celtics: KG, Pierce, Allen, Rondo (Solid at all four position plus a deep group of veteran players that are very good)
Magic: Dwight Howard ( The Best C in the NBA right now, but his team is incredibly deep
Mavs: Dirk, Kidd (Dirk is still very deadly, J Kidd just got younger and they already have a deep team and then they add Caron Butler and Haywood)
Nuggets: Melo, Billups (Melo is probably the best pure scorer in the NBA, they also have a incredibly deep team once K-Mart comes back. They have a shot but they're more of a good playoff team, not true contenders)

Rockets: Yao Ming.....(Probably the 2nd or 3rd best center but his style isn't fit to play at a fast pace. His injuries had prevented him from reaching his full potential and he's not getting any younger. He would be 30 by next season.

After that last major injury, Yao would not be the same player he once was anymore. His footwork isn't that great, and his hands isn't as good as we thought it was. Before, he had the potential to be a very good player but that potential is gone. Now its more of if he can stay healthy. He has been out for so long that getting back into NBA playing shape isn't easy as it sound. It would take him months to get back into game shape. Plus it is still unknown whether he would still be effective or not.

Most of us want to believe that Yao would just come back onto the court and still be a good player. But most likely, that isn't the case. Yao Ming is a hard worker but no matter how hard he works and train, his body just cannot hold up to his massive frame. He dealt with so many serious injuries to his foot. Even if the Rockets want to limit his minutes, that isn't going to happen because Yao wants to play. He doesn't like to sit out and watch.

Even before he was healthy, Yao isn't the type of player that can carry a team down the line. Yao isn't known for taking over games during crunch time. We all have to realized that as good as Yao Ming is, he rarely takes over games. Back then when he was healthy, Tmac was the player that would take over games during crunch time. Tmac was the one that made the decisions with the ball in his hands or usually the one that take the big shot.

But that was then, we're talking about now. If Yao was unable to take over games during crunch time and carry the team on his back, how can he now after this major injury. Sure if Yao can continue to be effective, the Rockets are a playoff team but that's it. Yao isn't mobile enough, and he is very clumsy with the ball. But that's why we have Scola, Brooks and Martin to score during crunch time.

But if the Rockets want to be contenders, Yao cannot be their best player. Plus it is very risky to continue to rely on Yao Ming. The Rockets relied on Yao for so many years and it always ended in disappointment. Injuries after injuries, the Rockets just cannot afford for that to happen again. With Yao Ming, history repeats itself. Yao Ming isn't going to get better. He's going to get worst. If he was still young (about 24-26 years of age) then it's a different story. But he's going to be 30 years old when he comes back, plus it would take months for him to get back into rhythm. Yao Ming even stated that he will retire soon because his body just cannot hold up to the grueling 82 games season.../

MambaJoHo

 

Are you serious? Shaq in his prime is considered one of the top Centers in NBA history. Shaq was incredibly dominant and he was unstoppable. If you double him, he would still score. If you front him, he would catch an alley oop. Shaq in his prime was putting up 26-29 points per game and 12-13 rebounds and around 3 blocks.

Im sorry, Yao does not come near that. Yao struggle to average a double double. Yao will never come close to Shaq in his prime. That's why LA won championships because Shaq was so dominant. Yao was never close to being a dominant player Shaq was. Plus now with Yao's injuries, we be lucky if Yao can average 15/8 when he comes back and play a full season.

 

I'm usually all about "everyone has their opinion" but are you serious? Yao is 1-0 in playoff series w/ out tmac AKA when HE IS THE FOCAL POINT FOR DEFENSES. So many weaknesses...? He only anchored a top 5 defense the last 5 years while averaging 20 and 10. How about a career 53% from the field? or a career 84% from the line? You want some playoff numbers? :

Career Playoff Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 HOU 5 5 37.0 0.456 0.000 0.765 2.2 5.2 7.4 1.8 0.4 1.4 2.60 4.00 15.0
04-05 HOU 7 7 31.6 0.655 0.000 0.727 3.3 4.4 7.7 0.7 0.3 2.7 2.71 4.43 21.4
06-07 HOU 7 7 37.1 0.440 0.000 0.880 3.3 7.0 10.3 0.9 0.1 0.7 4.71 3.86 25.1
08-09 HOU 9 9 35.9 0.545 0.000 0.902 2.1 8.8 10.9 1.0 0.4 1.2 1.89 3.00 17.1
Career -- 28 28 35.3 0.519 0.000 0.833 2.7 6.6 9.3 1.0 0.3 1.5 2.93 3.75 19.8

Most importantly: HE got the rockets out of the 1st round for the first time in 15 years. HE led us to a first round series domination of the blazers...HE led us to 2 wins against the eventual champion LAKERS...because HE got injured we couldn't overcome the LAKERS in 7 games and go on to win a ring.

I know he may not go back to being as utterly dominant as he was but one thing is for sure..he'll go as hard as he can for as long as he can and will gladly play himself into a wheelchair every year to help his team.

 

Did Yao have Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade or even LeBron James to play with? Shaq has had ALL OF THEM. I agree that shaq deserves alot more accolades for having a much better career than yao and staying healthy but having she-mac and ron artest as a sidekick on your best playoff runs is clearly a disadvantage for yao. I mean shaqs never had a team built around him...he even had penny hardaway in orlando...but no argument on who's been better to this point

 

Yao only? More like Yao appreciation. I was wrong for saying he's better than Ben Wallace in rebs and def but man, it feels like a majority of the ppl on here just wanna kick Yao to the curb for no reason.

Like T-Man, who keeps trying to justify that the Rockets are better off without Yao at all. Here's a T-Man gem:

Never thought I'd hear the day where someone says that Yao's height is a disadvantage

 

So you are saying that the problem is Yao has not had a team built around him like Shaq???? No you are saying that Yao has not had the same talent as Shaq had...

Man you YOF are killing me... Not a big T-Mac fan but when he said that he didn't have a Garnett or others people on this board went crazy.. But we can turn the scenario around and it's ok with Yao...

Fact is Yao has basically been MIA for the playoffs the last couple of years//

And NEWS FLASH Ladies and Gentlemen.... Love or Hate him.... Artest was the biggest factor in getting the Rockets out of the first round... There was a lot of help all around but El Nutso was the biggest factor.

 

We need a consistent Power Forward in replacement of Landry. And Yao needs to play at the same level of course!

 

Yeah I did say that and I will stand by that...

Tell me this... In the 4th quarter of tonight's game the Celtics were playing Garnett and Davis down low... So who would Yao guard???

 

First off I don't hate Yao, admire the fact that he's a hard worker and gives it all he has on the court....

But this thread and other threads want to compare Yao to Shaq, Kareem and Wallace.... That is not fair to Yao or to those players.

Yao is a good player, but if you go back and read what I state... Please don't compare him to those other players... Especially Kareem... I dang near spit the coffee out of my mouth when I read that. Yes that comparison has been made along with others....

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=183900&page=3&pp=20

 

Actually, I think last years Rockets would have have beaten the Lakers if they would have had Deke.

 

It's become quite obvious that T_Man simply hates Yao. Whether it be racially, personally or just plain stupidly motivated is questionable. The pure moronic logic and statements are enough, but the consistency at which he states them further more just highlights his hate for him as a basketball player and/or person. Quite frankly, I no longer can stand seeing what he writes, not because I have a discomfort for a differing opinion. But because the thought behind it is elementary and tends to be for show.

 

Not even a question worth asking at this point. I am can practically guarantee Morey adds a major piece in the offseason. We have so many good pieces its redonkulous.

 

Hayden,

This is not about Hate.. But that's what you feel so be it...

Like I said I love Yao's work ethic and his willingness to give it all on the court.

This is my reason

1) History - History with the injury that Yao has is the same that other big men have had and Yao reminds me more of Bill Walton and Portalnd. See a lot of posters on this board know nothing about that.

2) Injury - Yao had a very serious injury which is not easy to come back from.. See above... Yao is 29 and as another poster has already stated it will take him at least 2 years to come back (AT LEAST) and that's still a big IF.

3) Chemistry - Right now this team is doing something that a lot of teams wish they had or could do and that is to have team Chemistry. This team has grown and is growing, they have learned how to adjust with out T-Mac and also without Yao. I will give you this scenario.. It's like a long distance relationship, when 2 people grow apart they are not the smae people when they get back together.. For better or worst, mostly it comes to worst.

4) Adjustment - As I stated in another thread, will Yao be able to adjust to his new role.. When Yao comes back he want be the man anymore so how will he adjust. As Barkley stated, "it's for most Superstars to adjust to not being the Superstar anymore." The challenge for Yao will be both mentally and physically...

The adjustment will also have to come from Yao on the court.. So should Yao adjust to them or should they adjust to Yao... Yao even mentioned this in an article that was posted in the GARM.

5) Business - Yao is in the last year of his contract and it's going to take him a while to come back... See 2. So do you build around a 39 yr old injury prone Center? From the looks of it now, it seems as if the Rockets are moving in a different direction. Now that could change this summer, but I really don't see that happening...


6) Hate - My hate is not with Yao.. My hate is with the YOF... Cheer for Yao as much and as hard as you like... But please stop the comparison with Players such as Kareem and Shaq.. Yao is not on their same playing field.


So like I said before I don't hate Yao, but you can call it anyway that you like.

 

T_Man
Please excuse my skepticism on some of what you say. But occasionally based on what is read you call a spade a spade. But, if you don't mind, may I ask who you think is the best center in the league today?
And how do they compare with Yao and these centers you proclaim great, and that Yao wouldn't be worthy of shining their shoes. You might know something about that.
I'm just curious as to why, assuming as of now of course, that you would give inferior centers so much more...or at least on par credit with Yao. Is he not considered by most analysts and league players as being one of the top 2 or 3 centers in the league? And aren't they the most qualified to judge one of their own peers? Do you not give him the due credit of that? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make an argument that he is equal to a prime Shaq...or Hakeem. But I am trying to get a better understanding as to why of all centers you seem to criticize him the most. I'll be honest, I'm not to fond of you, as I'm sure it's mutual ....shocker? But at the same time I would like to think we can be nice enough to discuss differences in a sophisticated manner. So I'm hoping you will surprise me.

 

what a load of crap.

seriously dude, what a load of ignorant statements and speculation.

Yao is the best offensive center in the NBA, there's no question about that among anyone who knows ANYTHING about the NBA. the only question is how long will it take him to play into shape and will he stay healthy.

You realize that Dream won his first ring when he was OLDER than Yao dont you? And according to you Yao is too old at 29, but Jason Kidd who'll be 37 next year is young...

At least get your facts straight, in his last playoffs Yao pretty much singlehandedly broke Portland with that one perfect quarter that opened the series, and he dominated the frontcourt of the Lakers.

Couple of you dudes posting on this thread have no clue about basketball...

 

While i agree with alot of what T_Man said, i think yao is better than smits by a good margin. Yao is a very skilled player. He is methodical and robotical in a fluid and reactionary game. My point is he's a good player. Good players are replaceable,great ones arent.

When garnett and allen were traded, they were good players,not great. Great players dont lead teams to 30 wins no matter who is on the team. The rockets thru the yrs have played at a very high clip without yao. Go look at the 06 season and 07 seasons as proof. Winning at about a 67% rate with deke filling his spot says alot. If this team had made the trade earlier and had a legit big man vs hayes, they would be a 5 or 6 seed. Thats not a knock,just the truth.

 

I think your reasoning of 06-07 is a knock on Tmac. Tracy Mcgrady was still very good that season averaging around 25-5-6.

Are you saying that this season's line up with the 06-07 Mutombo is just as good or better off than this season's line up with 06-07 Yao (when healthy?).

Honestly, Yao has flaws like everyone else. However, his biggest flaw is his health. If he was healthy; a consistent 20-10 center with a jumpshot and free throw % would be the biggest advantage we have over other teams. Not to mention a 7'6" height.

 

What I'm saying is your team shouldnt be able to win 67% of their games by replacing you with a 40yr old center and a 6'6 center if youre so irreplaceable. The lakers had a championship team with kobe byant and when shaq was out, they struggled to stay at .500. So if we can all agree kobe is and was better than tracy , how come the records are so different minus the bigs?

1 time may be a fluke or magicall, but when you do it consistently, thats another story. As ive said, yao is a good all star quality player, but he's not a superstar or great player and is replaceable. If yao is your first option or best player, your team will never win a ring.

 

Are you're saying that KG and Ray Allen magically developed "greatness" by playing together on a team with a lot more talent. If so, I must admit I never knew greatness is obtained in such a way. Does this mean Yao can obtain the same greatness if he leaves to play with Lebron? Or if the Rockets acquire Chris Bosh?

If you meant that KG and Allen are just "good" players, then apparently 3 "good" players + soft bench is enough for a championship. Do you consider Kevin Martin a "good" player? Or Aaron Brooks/Scola? If so, then we also seem to meet the quota for "good" players. If not, I guess our team is filled with sucky players then.

 

Why can't you just give credit where it's due. The quality of the players we have now are much better than before. Remember when Tmac went out with back spasms? We could barely win games at that point without him. Now just last season, not only did we win more games but we got out of the first round in many years. That's not a knock on Tmac, it's just that our roster is deeper and better. If Tmac was healthy, he could've made the team that much better. The same thing applies to Yao. This team is good without Yao but it can be better with him.

Also, like I said earlier, I don't think Yao is among the bests. However, the fact that he is a center, makes him rare as hell. 20-10 center is not easily replaceable.

Another thing, let's not bring up Shaq in the same sentence as Yao. I am a Rockets fan first and Lakers fan second (I currently live in LA) and Shaq during championship years was unstoppable. We're talking about a HoF, top 10 center of all time.