We know that 75% of humanity believed in lots of strange things for 99% of human history. That does not sway me to believe in them. My starting assumption is simply that there are laws that govern nature ("natural laws"). What precisely those laws are, I don't know, but I believe that through our observation and ability to reason about causal relationships between observed events, we can increase our understanding of those laws. To me, that is the basis of a rational belief system. I can not believe in something simply because the majority of people around me believe in it. If there are experts in a particular field, and there is some consensus on the evidence in support of something, then I may believe it. But if the evidence isn't really there, or the believers are making a strange circular argument such as "because most everyone else believes it", that is not enough to convince me.
You know what the problem with atheists is?? The people who constantly proclaim themselves to be atheist at every opportunity. We get it. You have beliefs. Good for you. You can believe in whatever you want to. But, every single time there is a religious discussion of any sort, there will always be those few idiots who constantly proclaim themselves to be superior. These are the same guys who sit there and watch Richard Dawkins videos on end. I understand that you think you believe in something. But, trying to force it upon everyone does not make you look any better. In my opinion it is one thing to not believe and God, and another to be "atheist." Atheism is becoming somewhat of a "religion" in itself. I swear that every atheist who has a goal to show all the "believers" how flawed they are is the same as a missionary. I mean think about it... Convincing groups of people that they need to believe in a certain thing... Sound familiar??
That’s not a circular argument. That aside, I certainly wouldn’t advocate conforming to a set of beliefs just because a majority of other people do, but I would say that this should convince you that at least it is quite possible that a god or gods exists. What to do with this information is really outside the scope of this discussion, however. The question here was just whether a god or gods exist. The next set of questions would probably be designed to investigate this possible god or gods further. Is there one god or multiple gods? Who is he or are they? You mentioned experts above, and at this point we have lots of different experts who we could look to, including Hindu experts, Muslim experts, Christian experts, etc., and there are experts belonging to different denominations within each of these groups. The next obvious question is, with so many experts are any of them really experts? Clearly there are some pretty major issues to deal with at this point. I do have some thoughts on how to do this, but as this is really outside of the scope of our discussion here I won’t dig into it unless someone is interested.
LOL. Wow, where do you hear all these atheists proclaiming themselves superior? On this board? Last time I checked religious folks were the ones harassing me to take their bibles and talk to them about salvation while I'm trying to walk to class. Even when I say no thanks they start walking with me and tell me how Jesus is my only way to salvation...yeah, Christians are real humble How many atheists have come up to you in public and told you that you're wrong for believing in god and they'll show you how to think if you want to have a good and righteous life? I'd guess none...hell it'd probably bother you if it happened wouldn't it? Yet it's typical of christian pushers...hell, it's pretty much accepted. Of course atheists are going to voice their opinion on an internet message board that is discussing religion vs. science, atheism, other religions or unicorns. Some people don't need faith to live a good and righteous life(regardless of what people like RocketRiver believes). Yes(gasp) it's true. There is a cental lesson most religions teach...moderation, discipline, consistency. It's really not some magical formula that you can only learn if you follow their teachings. Yet, unless you get water spalshed on you while reciting a prayer, or you attend church every Sunday, or read your religious material and pledge undying devotion to whatever god you 'should'...you're not going to enjoy an eternal afterlife that you'll know exists until you're dead...and even if it doesn't exists, you can't do anything about...you're dead! Personally, I don't think I'm superior, but I do think it's silly as hell when religious folks try to use the bible and it's teachings to describe scientific phenomena when so much of it has already been proven completely wrong in that department. We all know of the scientists that have been persecuted throughout the centuries because they discovered evidence that contradicted the bible only to get a 'oh my bad, you were right' after the fact. Yet each generation throughout the years keeps pushing back the goal posts of faith...now apparently the burden of proof is on science to prove human evolution along with the origin of the universe...something the bible didn't even have a question for 100 years ago. I'm sure there will be more questions even when we figure these out. Until then it's the ol' 'god made it that way'.
Really? Sounds fair. Whaaa? You wouldn't advocate believing in god because the majority of other people do...yet it should convince us that god exists because the majority of people believe? That sounds pretty circular man. Whatever man. You've been a huge bible bumper on these boards since you've been here..I don't even know why I replied... Keep on keepin on...
I don't rule anything out as a possibility, but whether or not a majority of people believe in something in itself has no bearing on whether I consider it "quite possible". It depends on their reasons. I don't know if anyone is really an "expert" on the existence of god or the nature of god. It is not the same thing as being an expert on general relativity, where that expertise can be tested in an objective manner. This is more of a philosophical issue.
Pretty much everywhere on the Internet. I agree with you and can't stand that either. Anyone who does that annoys the heck out of me. You have to be pretty damn stuck up to try and think you can spam people in real life with junk and they'll respond well to it. <br> This is more of an Internet phenomena. Obviously, most people don't care. Yet, whenever there is any religious topic, there will be that atheist guy making some jerk comment. Pull up any thread that deals with religion and I can guarantee you a post in the first 3 pages will say something to the extent of, "I'm atheist, (insert subtle snide remark about religion here)." Actually, to be fair, it doesn't happen that much on this site, but look else where and it's like whattt. I don't know why you're trying to use Christian analogies to explain this to me. I hate it all equally. I think everyone should just be indifferent. I think everyone's mentality should be "who the hell cares..." Life is too short to be worried about this. Both sides are equally annoying. The atheist guys who are like, "I scoff at you believers" and the religious guys who go, "YOU ARE DAMNED TO HELL!!1one!" are both lame. Funny thing is, I understand why religious people want atheists to believe. It's part of their religion. Yet, why do atheists want religious people to admit they're wrong?? Again, who cares?? <br> I don't know any person in their right mind who uses religious texts to define scientific phenomena. Most level headed religious people actually use scientific phenomena to define religious text from what I have seen. I do think it's sad that something like 38% of our state doesn't believe in evolution. But, it's not like any of those people are interfering with scientific progression whatsoever... I still don't get what citing the experiences of scientists from centuries ago has to do with anything. Maybe we're talking about different things. I think you're referring to the actual religous vs. atheist argument. I am simply just trying to point out why atheists can be just as frustrating as religious zealots. I'm not religious at all, so it is really whatever. Speculating on the origins of the universe helps no one in advancing the human race. It doesn't help us solve any problems. And, heaven forbid we actually find the answer, I think it will scare us more than anything we could have expected. There are simple truths in the world. What begins must end. Life is cyclical. Maybe one day the universe will end completely..? It's just wasted effort.
Btw, it's 2 am on a Saturday not, so realize that perhaps I am rambling because of what may have occurred a few hours earlier. I apologize for any grammar/spelling/nonsense brahhs
Atheism is silly, IMO... Disbelieving a grand creator is just as silly as believing in one. Agnostic is the only choice, imo...
Now there's a newsflash - people are making jerk comments on the net??? Basically everyone who spouts off on the net is a jerk, and if you want to espouse religions, the easiest way is to call yourself an atheist...as if that makes you an expert on the topic or something. I doubt the majority of these people are the least bit 'well read; on the issues, but like you said, just want to be jerks. Internet jerks come from all different walks of life...religious or anti religious...best ignore them. Opening our eyes to the 'real world', I am sorry, Religious people are far more 'personal' about they way they treat atheists. Like scum individuals in certain cases.
Australia, New Zealand and the UK are the only ones that seem to have any sort of a grip on religion... 70k, 50k and 390k were smart enough to put down the one true religion in their respective census's... that being the religion of Jedi.
I think many atheists and I'm sure many believers would say that you can't be 100% sure that any belief is right. So if you want you could call them all agnostic. But that isn't very useful, so instead if somebody is 90% or 99% sure of their belief, then you label them based on that. If you think everybody should be 50-50 agnostic, then that seems a bit silly. Why go through your life not having any kind of belief whatsoever?
everytime i want to post in this thread i can't help but refer back to the guys who say it best. is there anyone better than hitchens? <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CYaQpRZJl18&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CYaQpRZJl18&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
I'd like to pose a hypothetical question... Say someday we find the vaunted fountain of youth through science and there's no such thing as death anymore. What do the religious do? Do they still want to meet their maker and be judged by their god? Based on their faith they should right? Even though there is no hard evidence of any god, would they be finding ways do bring about their demise based on the faith that they will be brought up to some promise land and be blessed with the presence of their holy lord and savior? Has religion ever truly been tested? I find it simplistic for people to blindly live their lives based on something people came up with and believed thousands of years ago. What is faith in religion? Blind hope for answers they didn't have the technology to come up with thousands of years ago. If prostitution is the oldest trade in the world, religion is the oldest scam. Since the inception of religion it's been used as a tool to control the mass population and keep the "rich" in power as it is still used this way in almost every country in the world. I know this is a somewhat erratic rant...well you could probably drop the somewhat part of that statement. I think Atheists get so much grief because the general population is made up of ignorant monkeys that haven't fully evolved yet and are basing their whole lives on a lie that they and also their previous generations have been brought up to believe.
Um, my guess would be Atheists get so much grief because someone who claims to be one of them makes statements like this.
Wow, this guy says what I'm trying to say...only much more eloquent(which isn't hard ) . It really is possible to be a good person without religion. Repped.
