That could cut both ways. What about children who grow up in an Atheisist household and are only taught that the World is solely materialistic? Consider in many Communists countries people were forced, sometimes at gunpoint, to reject spiritual beliefs and only a materialistic view of the World.
I cant speak for others, but the ideal way to me, and the way I will bring up my children, is to find your own path. Make your own decisions re religion . And then support those decisions . If my kid wants to go to church i'm not going to stop him. But either way - i'm going to love him and support him (or her)
There's a Buddhist story about a Samurai who asked a monk what is Heaven and what is Hell. The monk replied, "Only an idiot would ask such a stupid question." The Samurai became enraged and drew his sword to cut the monk down. The monk calmly replied, "This is Hell." The Samurai lowered his sword to ponder the monk's words. The monk then smiled and said, "This is Heaven."
Thank you. Who knows how it works, or even why? There have been people who decried God only to have things happen successfully. Does believing in God=profit? Absolutely not. Could it put people in a better mindframe? Absolutely. Does anyone know everything? Obviously not. Atheists can believe what they want to, but the idiots on the soapboxes deserve ridicule.
My mom and dad were brought up muslim, but they decided to bring me up with no particular faith. God was never a factor in our household. I've been to mosques, temples, and churches. I found God on my own, no particular religion, and I'm not even sure he exists, but I believe. Believe me, if you love your children, letting them find their way by themselves is amazing. I am forever indebted to them for that alone (amongst many many other reasons).
You were one of the lucky ones. I was a victim of 'subtle' manipulation. My parents do that "oh you are away from the Lord/off the rails" thing like i'm some kind of teenager that is being rebellious for the sake of it - without any rational thought...indeed they themselves cant envisage rational thought that concludes there is no god - because they themselves were brought up the same way! It can be a vicious cycle. It makes me almost proud to think I can break that in the next generation of my family.
There's always the chance that your kid will convert to a fundie sect and try to convert you (and all that's attached with it). Would you resist the urge to nip that in the bud?
A) I would hope my offspring had the intelligence to avoid. If they didnt I would beat the living crap out of them until they came back to the fold. B) they wouldnt try and convert me, because they would know who their Daddy is and how he rolls. C) All else fails, I direct them to their mother.
Agree on all. If any form of belief follows the principle of DO NOT HARM OTHERS, no one on Earth will have a problem with it. Doesnt make a crap to me if people believe in purple unicorns or "false idols" or not. As long as you dont put me or others in danger, have at it all you want. If kinky orgies gets you closer to heaven, please practice freely and often if you're leaving everyone else the heck alone and we all get to eat enough. If a fireman saves me and my kids from being trapped in a fire, does it matter where his beliefs are based? My thinking is once people go fully into science, things are so wide open you get people like Dubious in the Stephen Hawking Humans in New Stage of Evolution thread stating that humans dont even have a point in continuing the species at all...science has it where a strong of "logical" conclusions leads to another and another. And the logical conclusion is cuz we're all gonna end up succumbing to something anyway why bother? Thats the dark, ugly side of atheism. Perhaps people like that are correct in every which way. But thats that do for living? It seems being "right" means more than doing whats important to living. Religious people believe the battle's already won. Some atheists believe we've lost before we've even started. Some people ARE atheists because having no hope leads to no faith & no belief in a higher power, or ANYTHING. Religious people can be pompous in their conviction. An atheist can be equally pompous in their listless life logic. Just trying to explain why atheists get grief. Off the point kinda, but I think we're in some 21st century phase where, not just certain individuals anymore, but humans as a whole are insecure in being actually human. People used to turn to religion to cope. Now people just turn morbid and turn on themselves.
Ready for the answer....here goes.....are you sitting down????? i don't know. i question God all the time on this stuff. in prayer. when i read something that really upsets me or encounter some gross injustice i find myself asking, "Where in the world are you on this, God???" I find peace that I'm not alone in that....the Bible is riddled with people questioning God. Habbakuk, David, and even Jesus himself on the cross...."why have you foresaken me???" ugh. There is a line in the bible that says God causes the sun to shine on the evil as well as the good. You may remember, when Jesus encounters the man born blind (who he ultimately heals at the pool of Siloam) his disciples immediately ask, "who has sinned here that he's born blind?? was it his parents?? or was it him?" And Jesus responded that he wasn't born blind because of anyone's sin...so it's not retribution. But he was born blind so that God might be glorified....and then he healed him. I realize that may be entirely unsatisfactory for you, too....so I have to suffer so that God can be glorified?? I think maybe some of our views on suffering are misplaced. But I have a difficult time extolling the virtues of suffering while living a pretty comfortable life. I just think a God who is truly eternal may have a completely different view of our temporal suffering at any point than we do. and I think MANY MANY MANY of our sufferings could be fixed by natural implication if we acted differently...if our hearts were different. But I'm not trying to give you some pre-packaged, quick 'n' easy answer to why there is suffering in a world created by a God that I claim to be good and loving and at the same time omnipotent. I would just encourage you to not stop questioning him about that.
you just used the literal words of what i would describe as the work of those who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ....be part of bringing heaven to earth.
Max: To get back to a far more interesting aspect of this zany thread - I was curious about your thoughts regarding my post way back on page 5 or so... Always interested in your insight.
and this also reminded me of a song....but it's much more relevant than Wake Me Up Before You Go Go!! I found God On the corner of First and Amistad Where the west Was all but won All alone Smoking his last cigarette I said, "Where you been?" He said, "Ask anything". Where were you When everything was falling apart? All my days Were spent by the telephone It never rang And all I needed was a call It never came To the corner of First and Amistad Lost and insecure You found me, you found me Lyin' on the floor Surrounded, surrounded Why'd you have to wait? Where were you? Where were you? Just a little late You found me, you found me In the end Everyone ends up alone Losing her The only one who's ever known Who I am Who I'm not, who I wanna be No way to know How long she will be next to me Lost and insecure You found me, you found me Lyin' on the floor Surrounded, surrounded Why'd you have to wait? Where were you? Where were you? Just a little late You found me, you found me Early morning The city breaks I've been callin' For years and years and years and years And you never left me no messages Ya never send me no letters You got some kinda nerve Taking all my world Lost and insecure You found me, you found me Lyin' on the floor Where were you? Where were you? Lost and insecure You found me, you found me Lyin' on the floor Surrounded, surrounded Why'd you have to wait? Where were you? Where were you? Just a little late You found me, you found me Why'd you have to wait? To find me, to find me
Great post, you're just not gonna like my answer. I'm convinced Jesus is unique. Remember that ultimately, I believe this man died on a cross on a Friday as a sacrifice for humanity...as a perfect gift...and was resurrected the following Sunday. We could debate over and over again the texts of other faith traditions and how they compare to the Sermon on the Mount,for instance...but in the end, I come back to the idea that the source of the Sermon on the Mount was someone entirely unique. That is not to say that truth isn't truth. But I personally judge claims to truth relative to Jesus Christ. Que est veritas?
No issues. In fact, I am rather glad you posted this. Your stance (if I am interpreting it correctly) is that while the message may be found the world over, only Jesus "died" for your sins. I guess, fundamentally, I don't really see it that way anymore. For a rather large number of reasons I guess. But I am happy for you and your conviction. However, I do find one source of consternation in your post - you say "the source of the Sermon on the Mount was someone entirely unique". While Jesus might be construed as unique (different argument), I am confused as to why you would be willing to debate the texts - even perhaps to the point that you acknowledge their similarities in message - but not the idea that the reason for this monotony is that the source was always one.
ahhhh..got it! i hear ya (i think) and i'm following. yes, to the extent that someone was preaching something akin to the sermon on the mount before Jesus (or even after) i'd agree it was divinely inspired...it was still truth, no matter the speaker/author. and yes...i believe Jesus did something beyond just preaching truth and instructing...i believe he completely lived it.
Well, I'm not so sure on the nuances of "divinely inspired" but I appreciate your outlook on this regardless! Fair enough. To each his own!
