To be fair, I think of some of the guys listed here as not necessarily busts but either didn't quite meet expectations or might still blossom if given the right coaching and/or environment. Beasley needs to keep his head on straight and put down the weed. Evan Turner might yet become a really good player. Maybe it's just me, but I differentiate between disappointments, who at least show something on the court (even if, in the case of Beasley, teams should have foreseen some of his problems) and busts (if Thabeet doesn't suddenly produce next season, that's what he is; and no one's holding their breath on a guy that makes Kwame Brown look like Hakeem the Dream). Good thread topic, by the way.
Beasley doesn't "suck" I don't think, he has been playing much better as of late, minnesota just has a young bad team so it's not as obvious. Evan Turner could still turn out good, I think part of the reason Iguodala is being shopped is that they want Turner's skills to come into fruition by giving him more playing time and allowing him to grow. Marvin Williams should have never gone number 2....that was a terrible pick, the hawks passed on both Paul and Williams...and they have yet to have a decent pg.
People have claimed that, but do they really know the ballot count. I think even a couple years on a ESPN/TNT show that he actually beat Shaq out in the US for paper-ballots given out at the game. People keep making the claim, but can they just prove that for once. If that were the case he would have one the balloting almost every year. In reality, have you seen the starting centers out West to choose from, outside Shaq and Amare (only a few seasons), it has not been a very glamorous list. In his best five seasons, he was more than 20 and 10 player, give the guy some credit. You fans are so d@mn ungrateful.
Ok, they could be American votes. How about Marc Gasol for the last all-star votingl? Marc easily outplayed Yao and his 5 games and crutches. Yao's all star selectin was clearly based on performance. Yao Ming 10 pts 48.6% FG 5 rebs 1.6 blks 5 games Marc Gasol 11.7 pts 52.7% FG 7 rebs 1.7 blks 81 games We could argue that all-star selection is based on the previous season's performance, since voting begins early in the current season and ends halfway through the season. Yao Ming 0 pts 0.00% FG 0 rebs 0 blks 0 games Marc Gasol 14.6 pts 58.1% FG 9.3 rebs 1.6 blks Bynum is another option that has outperformed Yao Ming. Just because Yao Ming made the all-star team, it doesn't mean he performed at a high level. He clearly didn't do anything to deserve the selection. Why would you exclude Shaq and Amare, if they outperformed Yao those few seasons? They either outperformed him or didn't. How about Tyson Chandler for next year's all-star instead of Yao Ming, if he comes back again? Let's exclude Chandler, Shaq, Amare, Marc Gasol, and Bynum from past and future all-star votes. Yao clearly outperformed the competition. Congrats.
So Yao Ming is a bust and Bargnani is star players. You don't know what a star is and you don't know what a star player is.
Was Ralph Sampson a bust then? <table><tbody><tr><td>'83-84</td> <td>Houston</td> <td>82</td> <td>82</td> <td>32.8</td> <td>.523</td> <td>.661</td> <td>11.1</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>21.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'84-85</td> <td>Houston</td> <td>82</td> <td>82</td> <td>37.6</td> <td>.502</td> <td>.676</td> <td>10.4</td> <td>2.7</td> <td>22.1</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'85-86</td> <td>Houston</td> <td>79</td> <td>76</td> <td>36.3</td> <td>.488</td> <td>.641</td> <td>11.1</td> <td>3.6</td> <td>18.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'86-87</td> <td>Houston</td> <td>43</td> <td>32</td> <td>30.8</td> <td>.489</td> <td>.624</td> <td>8.7</td> <td>2.8</td> <td>15.6</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'87-88</td> <td>Houston</td> <td>19</td> <td>19</td> <td>37.1</td> <td>.439</td> <td>.741</td> <td>9.1</td> <td>1.9</td> <td>15.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'87-88</td> <td>Golden State</td> <td>29</td> <td>25</td> <td>33.0</td> <td>.438</td> <td>.775</td> <td>10.0</td> <td>2.9</td> <td>15.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'88-89</td> <td>Golden State</td> <td>61</td> <td>36</td> <td>17.8</td> <td>.449</td> <td>.653</td> <td>5.0</td> <td>1.3</td> <td>6.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'89-90</td> <td>Sacramento</td> <td>26</td> <td>7</td> <td>16.0</td> <td>.372</td> <td>.522</td> <td>3.2</td> <td>1.1</td> <td>4.2</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'90-91</td> <td>Sacramento</td> <td>25</td> <td>4</td> <td>13.9</td> <td>.366</td> <td>.263</td> <td>4.4</td> <td>0.7</td> <td>3.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td>'91-92</td> <td>Washington</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> <td>10.8</td> <td>.310</td> <td>.667</td> <td>3.0</td> <td>0.4</td> <td>2.2</td></tr></tbody></table> <table id="sortable_table_id_1" class="wikitable sortable"><tbody><tr><td align="left">'02-03 </td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>82</td> <td>72</td> <td>29.0</td> <td>.498</td> <td>.500</td> <td>.811</td> <td>8.2</td> <td>1.7</td> <td>.4</td> <td>1.8</td> <td>13.5</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'03-04 </td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>82</td> <td>82</td> <td>32.8</td> <td>.522</td> <td>.000</td> <td>.809</td> <td>9.0</td> <td>1.5</td> <td>.3</td> <td>1.9</td> <td>17.5</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'04-05</td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>80</td> <td>80</td> <td>30.6</td> <td>.552</td> <td>.000</td> <td>.783</td> <td>8.4</td> <td>.8</td> <td>.4</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>18.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'05-06</td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>57</td> <td>57</td> <td>34.2</td> <td>.519</td> <td>.000</td> <td>.853</td> <td>10.2</td> <td>1.5</td> <td>.5</td> <td>1.6</td> <td>22.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'06-07</td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>48</td> <td>48</td> <td>33.8</td> <td>.516</td> <td>.000</td> <td>.862</td> <td>9.4</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>.3</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>25.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'07-08</td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>55</td> <td>55</td> <td>37.2</td> <td>.507</td> <td>.000</td> <td>.850</td> <td>10.8</td> <td>2.3</td> <td>.4</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>22.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'08-09</td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>77</td> <td>77</td> <td>33.6</td> <td>.548</td> <td>1.000</td> <td>.866</td> <td>9.9</td> <td>1.8</td> <td>.4</td> <td>2.0</td> <td>19.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="left">'10-11</td> <td align="left">Houston</td> <td>5</td> <td>5</td> <td>18.2</td> <td>.486</td> <td>.000</td> <td>.938</td> <td>5.4</td> <td>.8</td> <td>.0</td> <td>1.6</td> <td>10.2</td></tr></tbody></table>
Because I don't want to do work, I listed the top-3 picks from 2000 to 2009 (rookies being too new to judge), snd put them in 3 buckets as suggested. Then I did a pivot to see the yield: #1 picks: 7 great, 2 good, 1 bust (Kwame Brown) #2 picks: 2 great, 5 good, 2 busts, 1 incomplete (Jay Williams) #3 picks: 4 great, 3 good, 3 busts It seems to me like #2 isn't performing too badly. If Jay Williams hadn't hurt himself, he'd probably have ended up in my great category. Either way, it has fewer busts than #3. And now here's my list. I'm sure some will quibble about the buckets -- like putting Bargnani and Bogut in 'great' -- but feel free to rectagorize as you like: Code: 2001 3 Pau Gasol Great 2002 1 Yao Great 2003 1 Lebron James Great 2003 3 Carmelo Anthony Great 2004 1 Dwight Howard Great 2005 1 Bogut Great 2005 3 Deron Williams Great 2006 1 Bargnani Great 2006 2 Aldridge Great 2007 2 Durant Great 2007 3 Al Horford Great 2008 1 D Rose Great 2009 1 Blake Griffin Great 2000 1 Kenyon Martin Good 2001 2 Tyson Chandler Good 2003 2 Darko Good 2004 2 Okafor Good 2004 3 Ben Gordon Good 2005 2 Marvin Williams Good 2007 1 Oden Good 2008 2 Beasley Good 2008 3 Mayo Good 2009 3 Harden Good 2001 1 Kwame Brown Bust 2000 2 Stro Swift Bust 2000 3 Darius Miles Bust 2002 3 Dunleavy Bust 2006 3 Adam Morrison Bust 2009 2 Thabeet Bust 2002 2 Jay Williams Incomplete
I guess 2nd picks tend to suck because they're the picks the "could've been the 1st" but had fatal flaws, and unfortunately this flaw was masked in college or overseas but got exposed in the NBA. For example Beasley being a pothead and immature didn't prevent him from getting 20 rebs and 20 pts a night, but in the NBA all his crazyness caught up to him and Miami ended up trading him for crap. Thabeet's lack of passion didn't prevent him from getting 3 blocks a night, but in the NBA he couldn't do anything. Its too soon to judge Turner, but to my untrained eye he seems like a carbon copy of AI except he doesn't have athleticism. He certainly seems to have decent playmaking skills, understands plays well enough and also has a broken jumpshot just like AI. He just doesn't have AI's explosiveness and hops, and to me a tweener with a broken shot and ordinary hops won't become great in the NBA, much less a multiple all star like AI. Derrick Williams looks like another member of the 2nd pick bust club to me, let's see how his rookie season turns out.
KD should have been the number 1 pick. If you were talking about BPA, everybody agreed that KD is the better player, Trailblazers just went with the guy they felt had the higher potential impact long term. And anyway this thread of course is talking about 2nd picks in general, obviously it won't apply to every 2nd pick in League history. I even highlighted Durant and LMA in my OP.
