The trade i always heard the most about was the Barkley deal at that time. That ws the one that was thrown around so much.
i think the trade was antonio davis, kevin willis, doug christie, and 2 lotto picks (5, 12). the offer was made after the 98-99 season. this was the roster when the offer was made: dream-roberts-miller chuck-harrington-carr pip-johnson-bullard dickerson-mack cat-price-drew-maloney with this trade, the quitten trade, and the francis trade we would've had this roster: davis-cato-miller chuck-willis-massenburg-rogers williams-bullard-grey christie-cat steve-mooch-drew *we wouldn't have signed anderson since we had doug. *3 guys will be cut for our draft picks. most likely grey rogers and miller. and here is who was available at #5:bender, rip, wally, marion, andre miller. we needed a 3 and no one thought marion would turn out so good. rudy loves shooters anyway, so it would've been wally. at #12: maggetty, artest, posey. all were basically the same player at that point, so i will say we go with corey because he was chosen the earliest of the group. then we picked K9 at #22. new roster: davis-cato-massenberg chuck-willis-K9 walt-wally-bullard christie-corey steve-cat-mooch-drew it may not look like much then but there are a lot of building blocks. i LOVE dream, but that trade would've helped a lot.
There were actually two times that Hakeem trades didn't happen. The first was, I believe, 1990. Hakeem had been accused of faking an injury. He was also a significant locker room malcontent. He had not found religion yet and, while dominant on the floor and not in serious trouble off it, was a real prima donna with the team. He and then owner Charlie Thomas straightened things out and he was not traded. The proposed deal at the time was to the Clippers for Stanley Roberts and Danny Manning. The second was around, what, 1997? There was talk that the Rockets needed to re-vitalize their team and find a way to get younger and under the cap. The trade was supposedly Olajuwon and Elie to Toronto for Damon Stoudamire, Doug Christie and Kevin Willis. The team actually floated the idea to fans before making the deal and fans were outraged, so they called it off. Elie was seriously pissed and was really unable to handle the situation.
Amen to that. Hakeem was ALWAYS dominant. He just didn't have any help. Even though he played with scrubs, his team made the playoffs every year. When he got some quality help, he won.
Steve Patterson had to do Charlie Thomas' dirty work on this one. Patterson was a good GM - he (and his dad, Ray), did a good job, putting together the first championship team. Steve later did a good job with the Texans and is now back in BBall in Portland.
He was dominant in specific areas, but early on he was pathethic in some areas which he later improved. Anybody remember the airballs on his first freethrows? The first couple of years he couldn't shoot outside of 10 feet, and the ball handling skills and passing skills were slow to come as well. Some of the late 80's early 90's games against the Sonics were painful, where he'd try to go through the triple team, or he'd pass to exactly where the sonics wanted him to pass. He also spent a couple of the offseasons in the weight room and came back significantly stronger from the previous years. Anybody who thinks Hakeem didn't improve his game significantly the first 10 years of his career wasn't watching the games or has a bad memory.
I think those are two different deals. The one with Elie was just for Stoudamire, in around '96 I think. Then came the one for Hakeem a couple of years later.
No one is saying Hakeem was a perfect player in his early years. However, his impact on the game was dominant from day 1. When he had help early on (Sampson and the druggies), his team won and had a finals berth. When his supporting cast sucked, his team lost. He still was carrying the team to the postseason every year though, and putting up great numbers (and better numbers in the postseason). He won titles when his supporting cast got better. To say Dream was not dominant is silly....
I agree. That having been said, there have been plenty of dominant players in the NBA who were never winners. In the same way that Steve Francis put up great numbers, but often looked lost or killed the flow of the game, Hakeem was dominant without being a great team basketball player. When he learned to consistently read when and where the double and triple team came from and how to pass out of it was when he became a winner. Keep in mind, Hakeem had Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Larry Smith, Kenny Smith, and Matt Bullard on his team for the 91-92 season, but they still managed to pay a visit to the lottery with a 42-40 record, worse than the 45-37 record last year that resulted in Steve Francis getting traded.
Most homeriffic comment ever. Hakeem is, at best, the 3rd best center ever, behind Wilt and Kareem. He is arguably behind Russell and Shaq as well. I have seen Malone argued as a better center, but 3rd-5th is my opinion.
Whatever I shutter to think what Olajuwon would have done against a league that probably averaged 6'- 6'4"
Hardly. Hakeem can be argued as the most complete center in that list. Russell's offense had a lot to be desired. Shaq's defense is mediocre. To me, chosing between Hakeem, Wilt, and kareem, is a matter of personal preferance. Cant go wrong with any of the three. But I can not think of anything that any of these centers could do and Hakeem could not.
Umm... his stats pretty clearly showed that he was a very different player in the mid 90s compared to earlier days. 1988 - 89 24 ppg/51% fg 1989 - 90 24 ppg/50% fg 1990 - 91 21 ppg/51% fg 1991 - 92 22 ppg/50% fg 1992 - 93 26 ppg/53% fg (7 game 2nd round exit by the Sonics) 1993 - 94 27 ppg/53% fg (1st championship) 1994 - 95 28 ppg/52% fg 1995 - 96 27 ppg/51% fg
How about scoring 100 points in one game, averaging 50 ppg for a season, averaging 22+ rpg for his career, leading the league in assists, having a career fg% over .550, scoring more points over his career than anyone, ever, or winning 6 MVP awards on the way to 6 championships? Could Hakeem do any of that? I realize this is a Rockets fan board, but if you ask anyone who is not a Rockets fan, at least 99% would rank Kareem and Wilt above Hakeem.
Nice how you didn't include rebounding numbers and blocks (when Hakeem would lead the league prior to 1992). And the last time I checked, a center was dominant if he averaged over 20 points, shot over 50%, was a league leader in rebounds and blocks (I won't even mention steals, which was not required but yet he was in top 10) , and consistently led his no-talent team to the playoffs.
What great player (besides Hakeem, Duncan, and any 2004 Piston) won a title without a lot of help (i.e. another all-star player)? You need help to win. When Hakeem had help, his teams succeeded.
Mario never did recover from that. That was a shame. He was slowing down a little, but I wish that he would have finished his career here. Remember what a hothead (H)Akeem way back? The other team would dig deep on the bench for a tall scrub and have him cheapshot Hakeem, who then would respond and get tossed w/ the scrub. His religion really did change him.
