I hate the Jazz. Stockton and Malone did flop a lot, but I think your Jazz hate is blinding you from the fact that Vlade Divac is the greatest flopper ever. I'll pull a tinman and give video evidence <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DgPHIT61FfU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DgPHIT61FfU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I really miss the days when a defender would not allow an offensive player to knock him down. Where is the toughness?
You're not watching. Lowry flops habitually, more often than anyone else on this team. He does most of his flopping on the offensive end.
There's an advantageous strategy to drawing the charge/flopping over shot blocking. A blocked shot can go right back in play to the other team, or out of bounds. Opponent retains possesion. A charge you AUTOMATICALLY get back the ball. PLUS give the opponent a foul call. I say too bad. If you can't play position or help defense, then foul or get ate up. Or try to get them back on the offensive end, like the old NBA. Heard the comment before how Malone is a rock solid specimen of man. How can 270 pounds of pure muscle have such "poor balance" when he falls down like 5 times a game and his always on the ground? And other 180 lb guys dont fall down but maybe once a week? You can make a 20 yard running charge directly toward Malone without him looking, with intent to knock him down and bounce back 3 yards off of him.
Can't beat them, join them. I hate flopping period, but what else are you going to do? Officials should make more no calls on flops. NBA players for the most part have to flop to ever get an offensive foul call, and if they try to play straight up defense will get some crappy foul call against them.
I hate obvious flops, but 70% of what Battier and 60% of what Lowry does aren't really flopping but taking the charge. Scola used to have a big problem with flopping be he has gotten it under control this season. Basically, a lot of the flops you do see are going against the Rockets these days.
Last game at Denver, One of landry's offensive fouls, Nene CLEARlY flopped.. he hit Nene in the chest(and went on a spin where there is little contact), and after about half a second, Nene just throws himself back to the floor and act like he's been hit by a truck That's a clear flop!!! That's what I hate!!! Those obvious ones. Those which are hard to judge, I think only the players know it. We can't judge by only LOOKING
you don't know basketball if you think that what Kyle Lowry does is "flopping". Scola is a different story, but he doesn't do it nearly as often as the notorious floppers in the NBA do.
What did happen to the selling of fault? That is the initial idea of flop. Now its just the easy way out for players that its just too lazy to play good d.
yea i agree we're pretty hypocrite. but hey. our guys don't just flop against anyone. when center falls as a guard touches them. lets say brooks knocks varejeo down. is that even possible? a 140 lbs against a 250 lbs? i get very angry when that happens. at least i don't recall scola flop against earl boykins. on our team. i actually get upset when scola flops. alot of them are very obvious. seriously man. play some real basketball please.
I hate it both ways, I feel embarrassed when Scola does an obvious one. The problem is the refs are just soooooooo bad in the NBA that these days if they don't flop on contact then they won't get the call and if that offensive player over sells they will probably get the call. NBA is big business, guys need to play more to get bigger contracts and they want to play more to.... this means with terrible refs these guys often will be seen as poor defenders or labeled as not attacking the basket hard enough if they are not taking charges or over selling contact and getting to the line, given this you can see why more and more players are doing it. I just can't understand why the NBA doesn't just take a hard line against it, stop rewarding the flops and known floppers and watch how quick it stops. The few times you see a no call on a flop down low, then the player scores an easy two....you rarely see the player flop again for a while. I guess in a league run by marketing and dollars made by the 'superstars' its hard to get rid of it when a couple of the NBA pin up boys in Wade and Paul are a couple of the worst at constantly over selling.
I don't like the flopping, but good luck trying to stop it. After all, the ref doesn't think they were flopping in the first place or they wouldn't be getting the benefit of the call. So clearly in real time the refs are not able to make the distinction between a flop and a foul on a consistent basis. So unless they introduce more instant replay and some sort of challenge system like the nfl has I don't see how they are going to change anything. Even with a replay challenge system it would be tough to say with any absolute certainty what is a flop and what is a charge. Sure we all see calls that look like they HAD to be flops every game, but using NFL replay rules for example, where you need undisputable evidence to over turn a call, what would be the undisputable evidence guidelines the ref is looking for in the replay to overturn the call? Determining a flop vs a real foul is more of a judgement call than something like seeing if a player was behind the line for a 3 pointer or a 2, or if the clock had expired before the shot left the shooters hand for example. And of course the team that is accused of flopping will be argueing just as heavily that it was not a flop. With that in mind, the Rockets are smart to use what works, and unfortunately flopping works. It's a if you can't beat them, join them situation.
Those are good points and reflect much of how I feel about the situation. I don't like flopping (when it's true flopping and not just a player being accused by fans or commentators of flopping, which sometimes happens, too). I think that in the past (and probably now, too) Rockets opponents have been successful at flopping against the Rockets because they tended to do it more frequently. I try to view these things objectively (a much as it's within my ability to do so) and it sure has seemed that opponents over the last few years have done a lot more flopping than Rockets players. I STILL think that's the case (not with all teams, but quite a few), but it's obvious that our guys are catching up -- because they have to fight fire with fire and try to even out the game. If Rockets players were not pulling an occasional flop, they'd just be letting the other team get away with successfully using a questionable tactic against them. If the Rockets flop too, it just helps to achieve something close to balance. If the Rockets don't do it, then they potentially give up via their ethical play a few turnovers and/or points per game...enough to potentially have some effect on the win/loss record, especially when talking about games lost by a two or three points that could easily have been lost due to a couple of flops that went against them. I still don't like flopping, but at present you almost have to do it to make sure the other team doesn't gain that advantage. I also think that flopping is much more a part of international basketball (non-U.S.) and that the influx of international players in the last couple of decades, while making the game better overall, has also brought more flopping to the game. I have no stats to back that up...just my impressions from watching lots of games over the years, and I could certainly be wrong about this. U.S. players are certainly learning, though...
I don't know why there is any conversation in this thread. Flopping is the anti-sport. Flopping is the death of all sportsmanship. It is appropriate that this poll looks like it's sticking up a middle finger. Screw flopping.
