I'm going to keep saying this. The trade requires Griffin plus another $5m in Rockets salaries worth a 3rd team taking on. The writer of the article is incorrect as he described the trade.
HP, Didn't we have a trade exception from the Knicks deal that we let expire? I think that would have fulfilled the obligation that you are referring too. DD
DaDakota, the Rice/Shandon trade did not produce a trade exception, as we took on more salary than we shipped out, we actually spent cap room on that trade, and New York got a trade exception. The Rockets did not have a trade exception resulting from anything we did in the summer when we were under the cap....you lose all team exceptions when under the cap. In this rumored Lewis trade, we would have had to send out $8m in salaries, and Seattle was only allowed to take $4.41m back. Griffin's pay was only $1.9m, which would have made the Seattle part of the trade work. But we needed to send out another $5m to get within the 15% rule of Lewis's salary that we were taking on. Half of that $5m we could have sent to Seattle, but another half we have to send to a 3rd team. The trade is Griffin plus $5m in Rockets salaries for Lewis...no matter how you slice it.
It really doesn't matter what cap spin you put on the possibility of this deal, you (and others) questioned why anyone would think the Rockets turned down the deal as a result of having to part with Griffin. The article does not say the deal talks stopped because they could not find a third team nor that they did not want to give up some can't-possibly-be-Walt-Williams-even-though-Walt-Williams-visited-with-the-Sonics mystery player, however it does clearly credit sources as saying that the Rockets would not part with Griffin for Lewis. End of discussion. Why even seek out a third team in the deal if you can't even agree on the main player? If you don't believe the article is credible, that's your choice, but you have nothing to back up your version of what CD was willing to do, so stop trying to pass off your straw-grabbing guesses as history.
I wonder about any trade at this point. EG's shooting percentage rose from 36.6% to 40.1%. He's not taking as many 3 point shots but when he does his percentage is up there. He didn't block as many shots but he seems to be improving steadily, if season stats can be believed. If Eddie makes as much improvement in his shooting percentage in year 3 that he did from year 1 to 2, would people still be talking about him as a bust? Another 3.5% and he's shooting in nearly the 44% range. Dave.
Clutch, Fair enough. Regardless though, no matter how much others want to spin this into a no-brainer trade, if CD was willing to part with Griffin, that trade would have required $5m more in Rockets salaries to leave...either all $5m to another team, or half to Seattle and half to a 3rd team. So, it is incorrect to say we turned down EG for Lewis. I'm stating fact; the article is a rumor. Can you add why we didn't trade KT last summer like Doc Rocket thought we could. The best deal we could have done is SnT Walt for exactly $2.5m...and talked Seattle into taking him for that with Eddie, then sending $2.5m or more to a 3rd team. I'll leave others to find that $2.5m+ player, and don't say Moochie.
no matter what you all say bad about CD, the trade is illegal as described on this board and in that article. Just say EG was untouchable. But there is no such thing as EG for Lewis...it is impossible. The trade, if it went down, is significantly more than just Eddie. That is fact. And factual history proves Walt was only taken for a $1m minimum, and there is zero proof that Seattle was willing to do him for $2.5m in a SnT as I suggested in my best case scenario, which would require a 3yr deal. Who really thinks Seattle takes Walt for $2.5m starting over 3 yrs, just to get Eddie, rather the fight patiently for Lewis?
for the record, i would prefer we did NOT trade eddie griffin this offseason. he is TWENTY years old , he is still growing (physically and mentally), he is talented, and - maybe most importantly - his value will NEVER be lower than it is right now.
I can't speak for others, but personally, it doesn't matter to me if it is possible or not. What matters is that the article implies that the Rockets didn't even explore if it was possible or not because they were unwilling to give up Eddie. They didn't go back to Seattle and say, "Well that won't work under the cap so how do you propose we get around this, and we aren't giving you [blank]". The author may have gotten it wrong, of course.
Well it was good to read this thread. But I don't think Griffin is growing mentally. He is decreasing. BARELY any signs of improvement. So much playing time... Hopefully he stops smoking and becomes a huge surprise next season.
As a fellow non-NBA-scout, I propose that the REAL reason most people on this Board and perhaps the Rockets' organization itself REJECTED a Rashard Lewis for Eddie Griffin trade had less to do with basketball potential than with a refusal to let go of sunk costs. Last year was only one-year removed from the draft in which the Rockets sent 3 first-round draft picks to New Jersey (including Richard Jefferson) for Eddie Griffin. Tomjanovich even said that they loved him at 1, so they couldn't pass up the opportunity to take him at 7. Eddie Griffin was still tantamount to 3 first-round draft picks, and nobody would trade 3 first-round draft picks for Rashard Lewis. Now, however, it's a sunk cost. Eddie Griffin is Eddie Griffin -- no longer 3 first-round draft picks. Personally, I don't see the amazing potential that everyone lauds. He seems pretty lackadaisical on the floor. Mo Taylor plays with more energy and assertiveness. Griffin's shot is weak, and his post moves are elementary. He doesn't have the same intensity that Elton Brand and Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnett have. Nor does he have the pure talent of Tim Duncan. That being said, if it were a matter of choosing between Griffin and Taylor, I'd drop Taylor and his salary first.
Jay750, trust me, the trade as described is impossible. I see what you and Clutch are saying. You are saying CD rejected the trade on face, because of Eddie. That's not what I'm pointing out. I'm saying no matter what CD wanted, when we talk about it being consummated, CBA facts show that the trade must move $5m more in Rockets salaries, on top of Eddie, and it can't all go to Seattle...and CD would know that the moment he took the phone call...it is basic math you can do in your head...so the consummated trade is much different than described on this board in admonishment of CD. There is no such thing as Eddie+Walt for Lewis; yet, that is what people are bashing CD for, and it is wrong.
When people start discussing trade rumors, they focus only on the major players and never on the fine details. In these salary cap days, the fine details matter.
HP, I understand what you are trying to argue. But I don't think it is really relevant. The trade was about Griffin and Lewis. All the other parts are just baggages. If CD thought Griffin for Lewis was worth it, we would have heard a lot more about how they tried to work it out (but eventually couldn't). The fact is, nothing. I, too, think that blaming CD/Rudy for not pulling off the deal is wrong, but not on the ground of cap maneuvering. It's just a simple evaluation of talents and potentials AT THAT TIME. Many people (including myself) felt that Griffin would become a much better player than Lewis. After this season, however, Griffin's potential is under a lot of doubt. I think the jury is still out whether Griffin will ever be better than Lewis. But there is no denying that Griffin's trade value has dropped significantly. In that sense, CD did make a mistake to some degree. But that kind of things happens all the time to every GM. And at least for those who agreed with CD in the summer should not point their fingers now.
"baggages." no way. We are talking $5m more in salary that you must move. Let's test the board then, as if it were realgm.com. <b>Calling all Realgm'ers</b> I want someone to show me a "Trade Accepted" trade that moves $7m from the Rockets and only $4.41m to Seattle. Eddie will be $1.9m of that trade going to Seattle. Show me. And let's talk reality. The article is wrong about Walt. Walt can't cover it all. Further, a SnT with Walt must be for 3yrs, no one is signing Walt for $10m at 3yrs, especially since he went for $1m for 1yr. Also, no one with cap room is taking Moochie's salary, especially Seattle (where he came from). See if you can move no more than $4.41m to Seattle, and at least another $7m from the Rockets, without SnTing Walt or expecting someone to spend cap room or a luxury tax on taking Moochie. That means you must move at least $2.5m to a 3rd team. show me the baggage.
ummm, well obviously Lewis and his agent spent all summer trying to work out a SnT with someone for more cash. They wanted the max or $8m...they stated that several times. Anyhow, whatever. I still want to see a real trade. You cannot say Eddie+baggage for Lewis, without showing a 3-way trade that pulls it off. <b>Bashers of CD need to show us a legal trade.</b> No matter how it went down.
Relax guys. Im upset to,but here is what might make up for it. Odom. Just watch lewis horrible ballhandling,defense,soft rebounding,and you see clearly why odom is 10x better. I have a gut feeling this "lewis mistake" will be a blessing in disguise in the long run. have faith. The chinese,ming,francis will not put up with losing much longer and the rockets might actually bare the lux tax for a year or too just to keep ming happy to resign. Granted,Lewis is a better 3pt%,but so what.He's a stiffy and a baby. I loved him last year,but on one of clutches articles last summer,their are quotes FROM lewis himself saying " DALLAS IS A BETTER ORGANIZATiON THAN HOUSTON".Now do you want lewis? From a basketball perspective,it was a major blunder,but lewis has a crappy attitude(see last game in Dallas him hitting a mavs fan as he tore his jersey off).
HP still putting up a fight. Regardless of actually putting the fine details together for you, why is it so hard to believe that CD has received calls on EG's availability only to decline because he invisions a superstar in the making ? The notion of CD refusing to discuss Griffen in trade talks is the same as rejecting any offers which is what seemed to have been his stance this past season.
