"The best data we have (concerning the origin of the universe) are exactly what I would have predicted had I nothing to go on by the five books of Moses, the Pslams and the Bible as a whole." "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe that was created out of nothing and delicately balanced to provide exactly the conditions required to support life. In the absence of an absurdly improbable accident, the observations of modern science seem to suggest an underlying, one might say, supernatural plan." -- Physicist and Nobel laureate Arno Penzias I think the Big Bang is God in action. I buy it entirely. It's a "beginning" moment. Creating something out of virtually nothing. Before it's "discovery" science conjectured the universe to be eternal, in the face of "in the beginning..." And that had been mirrored by most other creation stories told in other faith traditions. I don't read the Genesis account to be literal truth....i don't think that was intended. But the big points are there...Creator created creation at a starting point. That was very different from many other creation stories where the universe always just was....and that god/God was a part of it and came out of it too...as opposed to standing beyond it and creating it out of nothing.
I respect you opinion but I'm sure this will be one of those agree to disagree. I started a chain of reactions that have no outside control besides what the two parties bodily mechanisms produced. To me that's creation on my part and my partner. If I turned on the power that started a chain reaction of events to create a car then that is outside forces thats doing the creation. But within me is the food to fertilize the egg of another human to create life. Our body being the assembly plant is us creating a product. But I can see what you're saying To me without a belief in a higher power I cant see how man and civilization could be. What gives us any reason not to murder and rape and pillage? For the good of society? Explain why bacterial organisms grew to have a consciousness of themselves and each other, while developing emotions
go back a step, and this is where i have a more difficult time. go back to the inanimate becoming animate. even if we find a way to ultimately explain that...it's still miraculous in my view.
Its not because while the conscious act started it you aren't consciously designing or construction a new life. You can't determine the final outcome of the pregnancy, for instance if your child is going to be born at 6 lbs or 8lbs. You can't manipulate the fine points of the construction process, such as wiring up the neural system. While you can determine what raw materials go in the process is largely out of your control. To compare that to a divine creation of the Universe actually diminishes the divinity of an omnipotent God because that would mean that God can get the process started but couldn't design the universe, manage the precise details of its construction or have much control over the creation. But you aren't creating the car or the fuel to run it. You are initiating a process but that isn't creation. It would take a lot longer than I have to explain but to give you a quick answer. Consider how simple molecules of gas and water vapor can interact to form a hurricane. We have examples all of the time of simple small structures becoming much more complex things.
Were doing this thing at my church thats like, "Bring a friend to church" and I welcome any and all of you to come this Sunday. If Sundays arent good for you we do an early evening service on Saturday. Email me through the board if your interested, I would love to have you. Its a "Come as you are" style church, doesnt require you to dress up what-so-ever.
So that means someone can lead a life of indiscriminate sin, judging others and praying for their deaths (as in the "Conservative Christians praying for Obama's death" thread), then before death just ask for forgiveness, accept Christ as their savior and spend eternity in Heaven? While others who lead humble, generous or even pious lives can spend eternity in hell because they didn't "accept Christ?" If so, that's a crappy religion.
There's no need to say crappy . I agree with your idea, but on the other hand, sticking to laws and a point system creates just as many problems IMO. This is similar to financial regulations - they may be awesome, but humans try to find loopholes to make more money even though they know they are circumventing a law meant to protect everyone. At the same time, if you believe that everyone should be protected and there are no rules, guidance, anything... then you're likely to concentrate that strong belief into areas which may or may not be appropriate. This is similar to suicide bombimg - the faith is so strong but the academic/technical/structural side is so incrediby deficient that faith becomes misguided. In short, a focus on rules/remuneration creates problems. A focus purely on belief without being conscious of the consequences of your belief is just as dangerous. However, in unison (and I believe this is the goal of most religions) they work great.
No...it's not about saying magic words. Much of the Church has reduced it to that...but there's nothing authentic about that. Nothing transformational about that.
Non believers have faith in the men and women of science who give explanations of the miraculous events that happen in our world. We read books written by authors who talk about how the world came about and how humans evolved. Then whats the difference, when a man chooses to believe authors of the bible and place his faith in a higher power, whom he believes created the earth and moves through all things. To me honestly Atheist are starting to be as much of a religion as the one they try to criticize and if I'm not wrong arent they looking to spread their beliefs or lack thereof also?
Putting "faith" in scientists isn't the same as putting "faith" in God. I can go out and learn and understand everything scientists claim, and see the truth for myself through application of the scientific method. Where is the evidence of the supernatural?
I'm a non believer and I don't have too terribly much faith in men of science either. But I do give a little more weight to the scientific method than I do to people who say God spoke to them. I am an agnostic, but it is in no way a religion to me. The only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing.
faith in Jesus is not without evidence anyone who thinks they trust in Jesus blindly without any evidence is crazy that's like saying that you can believe anything you want and it will happen the evidence for Jesus is spiritual evidence not physical I can't depend upon Jesus showing up at my house so that I will believe in Him Jesus can reveal Himself by spiritual means and if you don't have that evidence it doesn't change anything Lot's of people have spiritual experiences unrelated to Jesus but of course that's another topic I don't ask preachers to explain molecular biology and I don't ask scientists to explain Jesus
Here is the thing, there are no reproducible evidence. I say I am a messenger from god and everyone from clutchfans should give me 1000 dollars, do you believe me? If you don't believe me, why not. I will even find a few people who claims I cured them of cancer lol.
This thread is still going on? I guess the way to get a good thread length is to say something completely ridiculous and see what ensues. All those in favor of banning religion say aye. Stonegate archer, that yugo guy, ok I wrote down your votes. All opposed say no, everyone else? Ok. Sorry guys you lose religion is not illegal.
Religion is a hot button topic in general, but on this site where religious people are either in the minority or are relatively silent, it gets even hotter. Nothing adds up the pages like a good religion trashing thread.
