The concept of hell doesnt bother me at all as an athiest. I am bothered by those that choose to tell me, or convey the message in any way (handing out literature/preaching at me via a freakin megaphone in public streets) that I am SINNER and that I am going to burn if I don't 'repent'. It bothers me because they are polluting my senses with that tripe.
Where does everyone live that they are constantly being harassed by religious types? I can just imagine the atheists here walking down the street, and there's like person after person with megaphone just yelling at them that they are going to hell because somehow they are able to tell they are an atheist (it was the hipster jeans). Is it really so hard to walk down the street and specifically not be told you are going to hell?
Yes, yes I have. My attention generally goes to the homeless people. While it's simply not possible to give each and every person money, it is possible to smile and treat them like a person. I remember reading somewhere that was the hardest thing about living on the streets, feeling like you were invisible to the people walking by. But crazy religious people shouting at me? Never experienced it in either DC or Chicago on a regular basis.
The biggest misconception of Christianity is that it is labeled as a religion. It's not a religion. Christianity is the only belief system where you do not have to earn God's favor. The Cross is the only thing that matters for a believer.
As someone who grew up in Houston, and has been living in Austin now for about 30 years, I have to wonder as well. How are you getting constantly harassed? I get bombarded with bull **** from the "talking heads" on CNN and elsewhere, who spew their religious intolerance when given the chance, all too often, but that's my choice. I can change channels. I can watch a Rockets game from two years ago instead if I want. I can sit down in a comfy chair under the oaks in my backyard and read Patrick O'Brian's great novel in 19 volumes for the 4th time. I can watch The 5th Element again in HD. Nothing and no one is making me listen to their talk about religion on a street corner, is making me hear the right wing Fundamentalist claptrap on the radio, or put up with criticism because I'm agnostic. No one makes me listen to their talk of religion. I enjoy listening to much of it, believe it or not, from enlightened people like Max or rhester. Heck, while sometimes heated, I've even had some decent discussions with twhy in the past. No one is twisting my arm. No one is twisting your arm, or the arm of the idiot that started this thread. I've traveled the world extensively, been literally around it, and some of the most fascinating things I've discovered are all these interesting beliefs and religions, their incredible temples to their faith. No, I didn't have to "convert," and no one did more than have interesting discussions with me about their Hinduism, their Buddhism, their Islamic creed, their Morman beliefs. I do what I want. It's why I live in this country, so I can, and if I couldn't, I would move on. In my opinion, the desperate, frantic attempt to wail about the "evils of religion" are more often out of ignorance, immaturity, or intolerance just as strong as spiel of the most avid street corner evangelist. With all due respect.
It's your choice if you want to accept religion or not, but it's not your choice to say that people can't try to spread the gospel.
Everybody wants to be apart of something, somekind of group of people that share a common love for something. Maybe a sports team, family, drinking club or cross-stitching expo. When people feel good about themselves and feel good about their group they want to share the love. What's wrong with sharing the love?
Are you following me? lol I misworded it. I meant to say even Iran can't ban what you believe. Banning physical places of worship is routine, but that's why a physical place of worship is so overrated. MadMax can give you a masterclass on this.
I spent a good deal of time wondering if your post was a request to know your email telepathically. Then I discovered the user CP. lol
I think I have a problem with those people too. You're right, they would wipe us out. But hey, in this world, everyone has a choice to believe what they want, and in this country, they have the freedom not only to express that choice, but to share it with others. Everyone has a choice to believe whatever you want. And if you wanna believe in virgin beliefs, guys meditation under trees for 1,000 years, or of 40 virgins awaiting one in heaven - that's great. And if someone is willing to listen and buy into that - that's great too. Are you just annoyed by these people? And anyone telling people condoms doesn't protect against HIV isn't just violating their own tenets of their religion, they probably are breaking the law as well. But guess what, there are plenty of people spreading misinformation in the name of politics, business, and a thirst for power in general - should all of these things be outlawed as well? That's exactly what China did. Marx coined "Opium" of the masses...he might have been right, that religion is a means to comfort us and a delusion, but it certainly doesn't make it wrong or mean the world is a better place without it. Ironically, if you believe in evolution, the conclusion of that would be that indeed, religion makes the world a better place, that's why it exists.
God is a spirit. There is no proof of God in the physical realm unless it appears in another human being or you believe the words of Jesus in the bible. In 1981 Joe Delaney was the NFL rookie of the year for the Kansas City Chiefs. All pro defensive end Elvin Bethea of the Houston Oilers put him in the same class as Walter Payton and OJ Simpson as a RB. He and his wife and 2 young children had it made, money, career, and fame. While training in the offseason in 1983 he was running in a park when he heard children screaming. He ran to a 2 acre swimming lake in the park and saw 3 children about to drown. Immediately Delaney asked someone nearby to call 911 and he ran into the water. On his tip toes he barely reached one of the children and dragged them to shore. He then ran back into the water where the other 2 children were drowning in 20ft of water. He got to them but couldn't save them. Joe Delaney didn't know how to swim. He drown. All you might hear about him today is through his foundation "37Forever Foundation," which works with the American Red Cross to provide swimming lessons for underprivileged children. His community knew him as a Christian man who helped others in need and never let money or fame change him. His wife was asked why he would risk a good marriage and his family to try to save 3 strangers. Her reply was he was a Christian. The only thing under his name on his tombstone is this: "No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his friends"
This statement really interests me; I hear many Christians saying this today, but don't fully understand it. Historically, few serious Christians would deny the Hebrew "connection" to their Faith. The elaborate and detailed system of worship established by God in the OT is clearly "religious" to the core. All the symbols, types, and shadows portray the coming Messiah and His sacrifice for the sins of all peoples. Jesus in the NT is the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." The Tabernacle, Temple, and manner of worship of the OT are prescribed in minute detail and said to be a "copy" of what exists in heaven. Hmmm. Does Jesus' fulfillment of the long promised covenant of grace eliminate any and all religious elements from "salvation history?" Did Jesus ever condemn religion or just "false" religion? He attended Temple services even at a young age, He taught in the Temple from the OT scriptures, and initiated two religious rituals: communion and baptism. Most of the NT is about the conduct and practices of the Early Church. Let's look at a generic definition of religion: Belief in the supernatural, belief in a Deity. Check, Christians claim Jesus is God. A distinction between the sacred and profane. Check, modern Christians should take note of the number of times the words "holy" or "sacred" are used in both the Old and New Testaments and how often believers are admonished to be "separate" and different. Prayer or form of communion with God or a Deity. Check, prayer is clearly a central practice in Christian life. Rituals or related memorial practices. Check, Baptism and Communion A Sacred Scripture or Holy writings. Check, the Bible Meetings, convocations, or other sacred assemblies. Check, churches meet regularily In fact, I can not find an academic, sociological, theological, philosophical, or dictionary definition of religion which Christianity does not fulfill in every respect. Because it is the only "grace" religion does not mean it is not a religion. That is my two cents and for those that respond, please forgive me, I can only come to the board sparingly. I can't usually go tit for tat, I don't have that much free time. But I will check back. Enjoy insulting me while I am gone.
Solid, in order for a person to get to heaven in Christianity, all they need is to believe that Christ died on the cross for their sins and accept him as their lord and savior. They dont have to try and accumulate acts or gain any favor with God. It is also possible for a Christian to enter into heaven without going to church actively. The popular phrase now for Christians when asked about religion is "I dont have a religion, I have a relationship." That relationship is with Jesus Christ.
No insults I think when Christians say that they mean that typically religion has been about man reaching up to God...following a set of rules to earn His favor. Christianity teaches something other than that. Jesus broke religion down to merely loving God with everything you have and loving other people as you love yourself. He broke tons of "religious laws" of the day from a technical standpoint, insisting that adherence to the letter of the law was causing too many people to miss the point, entirely. (example: touching a leper - unclean ritually; working on the sabbath day by healing). More significantly, he called himself the new Temple, which had GINORMOUS implications for the Jewish people he was talking to....because that meant the place to seek God and his grace and forgiveness had moved from a literal place, to abiding in a person. He's labelled a heretic for this, of course. James, the brother of Jesus, wrote: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." James 1:27 The early church was condemned as being "irrelgious" by the Romans. "We are charged with being irreligious people and, what is more, irreligious in respect to the emperors since we refuse to pay relgious homage to their imperial majesties and to their genius and refuse to swear by them." -- Tertullian I agree with you it's a religion to the extent a religion is a set of shared beliefs regarding the worship of and commitment to a deity or deities. Using that definition, I'd very broadly define "deity or deities" and say that virtually everyone has a religion, even if it's in worship of self. But I hate being described as religious...that word has baggage that far exceeds Webster's entry for it.
Someone prove to me how the Earth and Universe came from some "big bang". What existed before that to even cause a bang? How can you not believe in creation when you, yourself, can create a child? I'm a Christian but I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. Religion is a man made way of practicing one's belief but since its created by man it CAN be distorted to be something it was not intended. God didn't create religion, man did that. God didnt write the bible, believers did that, though inspired by God. You talk about morals and values, love and peace. Why would the bible teach that? Why would it ask us to love EVEN our enemies? Do for our fellow man? Leave vengeance in the eye of the beholder? Where you think morals/values came from? There's the world view and there' s the spiritual view. And I rather believe in something than not believe in anything.
I'm liking the idea of rhester, madmax, grizzled and twhy77 being members of an outlaw gang. Totally badass! Repent Muther****ers.
Actually I can't nor can you create a child. You can start a chain of events that would lead to a child but that's not creation in the terms of putting design and construction.
