The Case for MoTay over C-Webb -- Someone's gonna have to help me with this because even after The Cat's fanatical, homeresque rants (God Bless you Cat :-]), I still just don't get it. How do you pass on a superior player, who brings everything this team needs to the table, over a sentimental favorite who, yeah, can score but can't rebound a lick and exhibit Charmin-like toughness? C-Webb rebounds, blocks shots, can run, pass, shoot, churn butter, fix my roof, on and on and on ad nauseum. With C-Webb we're instantly a playoff team and maybe a year removed from championship contention. MoTay, on the other hand, could take us into the playoffs with Eddie by his side and make us perennial 8th seed dropouts. The Answer at the 5 -- The acquisition of a strong 5 -- someone out of an Antonio/Dale Davis mold -- is an absolute must if reports are true and we've backed off C-Webb. We can't run unless we rebound and if Stevie has to do that for us, what's the point? If we must resign MoTay, do it for no more than $5 Mil/Year and use the remaining room to facilitate a deal for such 5, maybe as third partner in a blockbuster, or as the recipients of dead weight. ------------------ Hey now, Hey now, don't Dream it's over...
Timing: Baker might have had similar stats (including a slight advantage in rebounding), but he only shot 42% from the field. As for Googs, he was a pretty good player a lil while back. But 32 is pretty damn close to old, and considering he is coming off of major injuries, as well as Mo being only 24/25 and having plenty of improvement to go, I'd have to take Mo over Googs also. ------------------ PrEsident of The Danforth Langhford FAN CLUB... He IS our future All-Star Small Forward
Baker had about his worst season last year and it was still comparable to Taylor. That was basically my point with him. Googs has had some serious injuries and he is losing his "prime years" window but I think he will rebound this year with Cliff Robinson out of the picture. He was a 20 point scorer and a pretty good rebounder before so I would give him the benefit of the doubt over someone like Mo who is relatively unproven in the league. Will Mo improve after he signs a fat deal? ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
Does that mean you would rather have Eddie Griffin over Rashard Lewis and two draft picks? How good would the team have been with Lewis last year? Certainly a playoff team if you ask me. Rudy has had some success with picks in the past but he's also had more than his fair share of bad moves. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
If your opinions are crazy then they're crazy. That's not a personal attack. While you're speaking for the entire BBS and all, tell me more about how solid 5's are easier to find than solid 4's. Considering that the power forward spot is probably the most talented position in the league, while the center position is by far the least talented position, I find that to be another pretty crazy statement by you that all we need to go along with softie Mo is a solid 5. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
Rashard Lewis is better than Terence Morris, plain and simple. Lewis will be a star in this league, Morris will be a solid role player at best. ------------------
Objectivity: Webber is better than Taylor Webber will cost lights out over Taylor Webber strong points- proven scorer/rebounder at the 4, demands double team, he's at his prime next few years Webber weak points- Will break the bank here (better get us a ring), will not play center, Is not a great D stopper, has had problems in other situation, No guarantee he will be happy without a ring in 1-2 yrs., will be hard to land him unless everything fits just right Taylor strong points- loves team, good offensively facing the basket, young and improving (only one year in our system), we know what kind of effort he gives Taylor weak points- fouls, banging inside, shotblocking, so-so defender Rudy factor- Rudy likes Taylor chemistry Rudy Loves Griffin pick Rudy has only so many PF slots (1) Rudy may start Griffin at SF he will become PF Rudy is the coach EVERYBODY GET USED TO MO TAYLOR-HE'LL BE BACK ------------------
They're crazy in your view perhaps, but I don't think you should be speaking on behalf of everyone else. If you have a problem with me, let me know, but try not to support your argument with false implications like saying the rest of the BBS agrees with you. Until other people besides you say that, and so far they haven't, leave out the everyone talk. I may not completely understand what you're saying, or you may not understand me. Solid 5's are not easy to find-- I am in agreement there. That's why I think we should go after one this summer such as Marc Jackson, Nazr Mohammed, or Raef Lafrentz in a trade. I know Webber brings a lot of things to the table, but despite all the things he brings I cannot envision this team being successful with the tandem of Cato and Collier at center, no matter what we have at the other spots. In my opinion, we don't need a superstar 4 to contend in a few years, with Francis, Cat, and Griffin already in place. However, I do think we need at least a solid player to play the 5, and I don't think we can get that if Webber is here. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Timing: Well everyone has been praising Mo's "great attitude", including Doc Rocket who really knows his stuff, so I would think that yes, MO will improve after he signs a fat deal. ------------------ PrEsident of The Danforth Langhford FAN CLUB... He IS our future All-Star Small Forward
If Webber lets you know he wants to come here you have to do whatever it takes to make it happen. When you get a verbal committment you forget chemistry, you forget money, and you forget how he fits in the system, because in reality, nobody really knows how he truly would fit in and he sure as hell is worth the risk. If he isn't, who is? You don't pass on a player the caliber of a Chris Webber. Taylor will never be a good rebounder, and if you saw any of him when he was on the Clippers, you would know that he has to be fed the ball and isolated on one side to be successful. I think his face up game would be very valuable next year though. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists
"It seems like the majority of the BBS is in my corner right now... perhaps you need to take a closer look at what you post." Is this the kind of false implication you're talking about? I honestly could care less who agrees or disagrees. This board is for discussion, agreement, and disagreement. I'm not much for trying to be popular so I'll stick to discussing my opinions and you do whatever. I feel Webber and anything at the 5 is better than Mo and any free agent 5's we could possibly get. You disagree so we'll just disagree. After this upcoming season when Mo has his $6-9 million deal locked in for 5/6 years and is still putting up 12 points and 5 rebounds we'll discuss Mo's worth to this team. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
I should've said a greater majority of the BBS who posted on the subject. My fault. I want to talk about basketball too, but attack my ideas, not my opinions in general, if that's possible. We can continue this discussion next offseason, like you said. Have a nice day. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Timing: The Cat is one of my favorite posters because he *always* has a good reason for his opinions. I don't always agree, and think he's a bit too much of a homer at times, but he's never "crazy." That is a personal attack. you're using derogatory adjectives make your case for you. Please don't do this, especially when you're completely wrong about it. I'm undecided about Webber. I think you and Achebe & co have a compelling case: Webber's a top 5 NBA player, resurrected Sac-town, and would give us the best front-line outside of San Antonio. But The Cat & HP have good points too. Mo T is great for chemistry, is cheaper, and fits better within our offensive scheme. Neither side is "crazy." ------------------ Don't let those uppity newbies get away with acting like vets... ...all newbies are equal, remember that.
"......Taylor is not what we need. We need a hard-nosed, defensive minded PF that can rebound with the best of them. We also need a great hustler. All of that describes Brian Grant, not Mo Taylor......" http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007208.html Later I found that Aelliott cited that quote in this thread: http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/009550-3.html Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated. Start more Webber threads! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited June 30, 2001).]
I agree. I just had to post again b/c the Cat was on yet another one of his erroneous crusades. Unfortunately he takes Pollyana fatigue by the BBS as some sort of agreement. Calm down kitty. Mo Taylor sucks. He still sucks, and when he's overpaid for 5 rbg, he'll suck even more. As a matter of fact, what's the difference between Mo Taylor and Vin Baker? The amount of rainfall per year at their respective homes. There's no way in hell that a receptive Webber gets turned down by the Rockets. The only reason why the Rockets would turn their backs on Webber is if Chris has already given them the impression that he isn't going to sign with them. Period. You do not choose Griffin and Mo and a 64 year old Dream over Griffin and Webber and Cato. Noone would. Not the Suns, not the Sonics, not the Blazers, not the Mavs, not the Spurs, not the Hawks, not the Heat, not the Bucks, not the Clippers, not the Jazz, not the Pacers, not the I'm running out of team names...
Mango you're a machine. I love your work. I think we have the big oooh phaser burn coming up. And after that court adjourned!
The fact that Mo has a better jumper than Baker, fits in better with his teammates, is a better ball handler, doesn't make as much money-- those are all big differences between Mo Taylor and Vin Baker. Let's also not forget the fact that he's 24 years old, and will get better. I trust Rudy and CD's judgment over yours, and they are about to sign him to a big deal. Wouldn't say he sucks. And when people say that it is great news in response to reports that they'll go after their own free agents, and then they distinctly say I agree with my posts, I do take that as an agreement. It's not just about the frontcourt. It's about the entire team. We have enough stars as it is, and we need to surround them with quality role players. I don't care if Webber is receptive or not to signing here; the Rockets would be better off longterm with Francis, Cat, Griffin, Taylor, Hakeem and/or Jackson than they would with Chris Webber. Getting solid centers is too hard, and even if we can't find one this offseason and we resign Hakeem, we can go out and find one a year from now. We don't need a superstar 4 to contend. We need a solid 5 to contend, whether we have Webber or Mo at the 4 spot. Even if Webber were willing to take a greatly diminished role here to accomodate the big 3, I'd still like for the Rockets to see if there is a way they can acquire a solid 5 before they committed to him. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007131.html Mo Taylor? No way. I'd rather have Kenny or Moiso. If you play about 37 minutes a night at the PF spot and can only grab 5 rebounds, it should tell you something. We need a hard-nosed, tough PF like Croshere or Brian Grant that is a monster on defense and the boards. That is completely the opposite of Taylor. Starting to like Mo: http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/008109-2.html August 09, 2000 12:00 PM "....Also, a huge part of rebounding and defense is desire. Once Mo is away from the Clippers, and has a reason to play hard and prove himself, I think he can be a very good PF......" He got away from the Clippers and his rebounding and defense didn't really move as you projected last summer and this was in a contract season. Same thread: August 09, 2000 12:47 PM quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He strikes me as the type of guy that would go to a team that can give him the most money. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's true. But his agent, David Falk, says that the way for him to get the most money is by signing for the exception and getting a big payday next summer, when ironically the Rockets will have cap room. Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated. Start more Webber threads!
Ok, this post is directed at Cat, but is not meant to be an attack in any way, just an observation. 1) Your logic is flawed when you state that that Radio host (Kemp, is it?) is either right on both or wrong on both. That's a formulaic application of subjective correlation. (OK, yes, sorry, I really did just write a philosophy exam today). In order for that to be true, you have to conclude that people are either always right, always wrong, or either of the two on a given subject. And I knwo from reading your posts that you're way to intelligent to be that sophmoric. 2) On the same line, I know from reading your posts that you know way to much about basketball to ACTUALLY, OBJECTIVELY rate Tayor over some of the people you suggest, such as Kenyon Martin. As much of a fan of the Rockets as you are, I'm sure you're aware of their opinion on Martin. Camby? Come on...Ok, maybe I'll give you Walker, but not because he's Taylor is anywhere near as talented, but because Walker's an idiot. But, as for some of the others... Knowing that you obviously a) are intelligent and b) know basketball , I have to conclude that your judgment gets a little clouded by your loyalty, and in that regard, you may be living up to the original definition of a fan. But I also suspect that this trait is transferable, and were the Rockets to sign Webber, a couple of years down the line you'd be the one defying anyone to prefer someone else. ------------------
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/012087.html March 23, 2001 07:23 PM .....I don't want just Webber. I don't want just Mo. I want both. And if Cato actually has a trade market (Clutch has said he does in past rumors), send his butt out of here for cap room and let's keep Mo and bring in CWebb..... Game over. Mango ------------------ Get it right or just don't do it! Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated. Start more Webber threads!
