The Cat, bottom line is that if Webber wanted to come here everyone would welcome him with open arms. Francis personally told me in May that he hopes Webber comes. But I see where you're going. There are two schools of thought: #1) Sign Webber and we have a high-flying, star-studded team. Taylor isn't tough enough. The media will place 60-win expectations on us (we may disappoint them) #2) Keep our core intact. Taylor just needs a little more time to get used to his role. He's 25, he'll learn to rebound, and he complements our backcourt well cause he doesn't clog the lane. Personally, either alternative is fine with me. The X-factor is not the 4-spot. It lies on the shoulders of one Kelvin Cato. If he is half the man he was in that preseason game I attended at the Alamodome 2 years ago, we have good things ahead. Of course this is all wishful thinking- Crapo probably will continue to blow chunks. But nobody would happier than me to see him prove us all wrong. ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
Cat, Here are PFs that are BETTER than Taylor, not what you would want. Jamison Brand McDyess Garnett Wallace Malone Webber Duncan Abdur-Rahim (who played PF a lot in Van, and he will play there in almost every minute in ATL) K.Martin (better rebounder, better defender) B.Wallace Walker Grant Camby (he's a PF, not a C) K. Thomas J. O'Neal (same as above) Van Horn (who is really a PF but because of K-Mart is playing at SF) D.Davis 18 players. I'd say he's worth 3.5 million, 4.5 million max. ------------------
I'd take Mo over Ben Wallace, Dale Davis, Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin, Brian Grant, and Kurt Thomas in a heartbeat. I might take him over Walker and Camby. Shareef will play almost all SF in Atlanta, by the way. Nazr Mohammed is the starting center, and Theo Ratliff is the starting PF. That would make Shareef the starter at small forward. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 29, 2001).]
Nazr's wants: Money and minutes ATL can give: Less money and less minutes He's more than likely on his way to another team. Possibly, your Rockets. All those players that you have named can grab a little less than 5 more rebounds per game while starting at PF than Taylor can. They would fit much better on this Rocket team. Mo Taylor isn't that good. ------------------
"And you know three of those years were with the Clippers, a team that had a nasty relationship with him throughout, and a team in which he had no motivation to go out and play for. What motivation should Mo have to go out and risk further injury when he'll be booed when he touches the ball by his own fans and has no chance at the playoffs?" - - - Cat Cat, I think you should just admit saying this was a mistake. You clearly imply Mo did not give a full effort because (a) his relations with the Clips management was bad and (b) the fans boo'd him. Even though you support Mo you say bad things about his character. Any player who does not give a full effort, whether he's boo'd by fans or not, is either immature at best or Joe Barely Cares at worst. Someone who just picks up their paycheck, or only plays hard when the team is winning or when the fans cheer him, is not the kind of player I think you'd support. John Wooden told his players: "There are times this year when you are going to get praise that you deserve, and you are going to like it. There are times when you are going to get praise you don't deserve, and you're going to like that too. There are times this year when you are going to get criticism you don't deserve, and you are not going to like that. There are times you will get criticism you do deserve, and you are not going to like that either. The point is that you cannot ask players to be perfect, because we all make mistakes. But you can expect that every player will give 100% effort everytime they play the game." ------------------
K. Martin's stats 68 games 12 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.9 apg 1.66 bpg 1.15 spg 2.0 tpg 63% FTP 44.5% from the field M. Taylor's stats 69 games 13 ppg 5.5 rpg 1.5 apg .55 bpg .41 spg 1.8 tpg 73% FTP 48.9% from the field The defense, all-around game, and quickness is enough for me to say Martin is a better player than Taylor. ------------------
Hayes, I can't admit it was a mistake, because if in the situation, I would probably do the same thing. If I knew I was leaving a job soon and that people there hated me and I came down with an illness, I probably would not do anything to potentially risk my health only to benefit them. Perhaps my outlook on this matter is wrong, but I meant what I said. NYK, Stat-wise, you can find lots of PF's better. The problem is, games are played on the court, and not on pieces of paper. I like what I see from Mo on the court much more than those PF's I listed. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 29, 2001).]
I dont know what's wrong with you ,Webber is one of the best players in the leauge!!!, He is one of the BEST forwards in the leauge , and we have no chance to sign anyone good as him . you always talk about "chemistry " ,well it's bull**** because webber is a great team player , he is a great passer and he can do everything better than mo(except his jump shot).with all our great chemistry we didnt even make it to the playoff! this year we will be there almost for sure no matter what , but if we want to be serious we cant stay with mo he is one of the WORST POWER FORWARD ON THE LEAUGE in rebounding and defence (all the things power forward must do! ) and with mo , we got no experience and no guarantee that he will be better next year . webber is a sure thing and he will give us a serious post threat and he is our best chance to go to the next level we need him he is a great team player and you didnt think that another superstar in the post will make francis life much easier (example look at kobe near shaq ). we need to dump cato , walt ,los , dream ,mo and sign nazr and webber this is our only realistic chance to go to next level . (if we sign webber he would proably will sign with us a long contract so we dont have to worry about him leaving ).if webber wont come,we have sign booth ,mark jackson , jerome williams or get some how ben wallace (complete taylor's game ),raef would also fit perfect but i dont see how we are going get him . bottom line-WE MUST SIGN WEBBER. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Francis_Rules (edited June 29, 2001).]
I don't think Mo stacks up well in terms of starting PF's in the league. But he is better than some starters (not in the bottom quarter of starters, probably the 2nd quarter), and MOST IMPORTANTLY, he is young and far better than any PF the Rockets have. Given Webber doesn't appear interested in a FA deal, we should definetly try to keep Mo. Plus, with the athleticsm, shot blocking and rebouding of Griffin from the 3, the deficiencies Mo are not as problematic for the team now. I am still hoping Webber will consider the FA route--we definetly should be rolling out the red carpet + a 6yr/90Mil contract for him--but it doesn't look like Webber want to do that. Once Webber's decision is final and in other direction (it may be just it is not leaked officially), we should lock up Mo T. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited June 29, 2001).]
The arrival of Griffin and Morris could just as well create chemistry problems. I don't think chemistry should be an issue. The LA Clippers now are a better team without Maurice Taylor. In fact, the frontcourt of the Clippers are so good, they're likely to make a serious playoff run. And they are one team the Rockets lost three out of four games. As for Taylor, I don't think his rebounding will improve enough to surpass Steve Francis'. And if he demands a bigger salary, Rudy Tomjanovich should asks his scouts to look elsewhere. Webber's salary demands are also too demanding. Just look for proven rebounders available, like Jerome Williams. Don't spend the big money and wait till Tim Duncan becomes available. ------------------
even Googs and Vin Baker are better than Mo-Timing Nah they're not better. Googs is old and injured. Vin Baker is in chronic depression. ------------------ PrEsident of The Danforth Langhford FAN CLUB... He IS our future All-Star Small Forward
Cat, I'm not following your logic. Your suggesting that we should pay Taylor 6M/year, yet you're saying that he'll be our 4th option on offense and admitting that he's not going to rebound. You're also saying that we'd still need to bring in an enforcer/rebounder to make up for his weaknesses. Why would we do that? If he's a role player, then he needs to fill a role on the team. What is Taylor's role? His strength is that he can score some points, but if he's a 4th option on offense, then that's not too important. If we're going to have role players at the 4 and 5 spot, shouldn't they contribute to as many of our needs as possible? If the primary argument for Taylor is team chemistry, then why not let Taylor walk and just make Kenny Thomas the starting PF? Thomas has played here and has good chemistry with the team, he rebounds better than Taylor, he's a better shot blocker and he's a better defender than Taylor. He'd fill as many or more needs than Taylor and he'd cost $5M less per year. Kenny Thomas at <$1M fits your role player much better than Taylor at $6M. Also, if you're so concerned about not tampering with team chemistry, then you better be willing to resign Walt Willams after next season. He's much more engrained in the team chemistry than Taylor. Why in the world would you say that you'd take Taylor over Ben Wallace? Wallace is the prototype of what we need. He's a great rebounder and shotblocker that only makes $4.5M/year. The guy averaged 13.1 rebounds and 2.33 blocks per game last season. He's exactly the enforcer that you've been describing. He's everything that Taylor isn't and that's exactly what we need. Also, it's not acurate to say "They could've had Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell, Nick Van Exel, Dennis Rodman- you name it. But they didn't. They shipped those players away for role players that beautifully complemented their star Shaq and potential star Kobe." Those guys weren't shipped away for role players. Eddie and Campbell were traded for Glen Rice who was averaging over 22/game and was an all-star. Rodman was released for no compensation. ------------------
Mo may not be "ranked" up there with the other PF, but he is one of the BEST fit for our team. We need PF to be albe to hit the open shot when other ppl crowd our penetraters. Take that huge list you guys made up and tell me how many of them can hit jumpers like Mo can, and don't reply if your just going to look it up in statistic. If you watched the rocket games, you'll know that Mo, in the late part of the season, was tearing it up. Now that we have Eddie Griffon, and any center(including cato) to rebound, as long as Mo puts in an effort, we don't need him to pull 10 boards a game. With all that said, Webber is not the best option (opnion). What role would Webber play? What Webber would add to this team would be a Lotta publicity, expectations, and a completely different play book for Rudy. This may make our team look great on paper, but it might not be the best option. ------------------ [This message has been edited by SaFe (edited June 29, 2001).]
Uh, the Clippers from Mo's last year, and the current ones are completely different. Trading a future draft pick for Keyon Dooling and Corey Maggette, and drafting Darius Miles and Quentin Richardson, and now acquiring Elton Brand for their pick will do that for you. They also lost Derek Anderson at the same time. ------------------ "I think alot of people find Cato's game to be very offensive." -aelliott, comparing the offensive skills of Kelvin Cato and Michael Olowokandi
I never admitted that he wasn't going to rebound, and I never said we'd need an enforcer at the 5 spot to make up for his weaknesses. We need that whether we get Webber or Taylor, in my opinion. I think Mo plays much better defense than KT, so I don't follow you there. And KT isn't much of a shotblocker either. And neither KT or Walt is near as good a fit in team chemistry as Mo is, if I'm watching the same team. What is Mo's role? To be a big man playmaker. We have Griffin who is going to crash the glass, block shots, and get you some points on offense. We need another big man, a true big man, to be able to create opportunities for himself and teammates. Mo can get himself space for his sweet jumper with his ball-handling, and he can find open teammates off the double teams. And I don't care what his assists per game numbers are-- I've watched these scenarios develop, and Mo is a good passer for a big man. In addition, defensively and offensively, I expect him to give 100% to try and take the charges, defend the top PF's well, and do a lot of the intangibles. Why in the world would you say that you'd take Taylor over Ben Wallace? Wallace is the prototype of what we need. He's a great rebounder and shotblocker that only makes $4.5M/year. The guy averaged 13.1 rebounds and 2.33 blocks per game last season. He's exactly the enforcer that you've been describing. He's everything that Taylor isn't and that's exactly what we need. We need what he brings alongside Taylor, not in place of. We still need Mo's skills on this team, but we need Wallace's skills too. In fact, that is part of my argument for Webber. Even if we get Webber, I still think we need a guy like Wallace to contend. The problem is, with Webber, you won't have that chance. You can with Mo. This team needs a rebounder and enforcer at the 5, esp. with the scoring this team has from the 1, 2, 3, and probably 4 spots. A guy who hits the offensive glass hard would be great. However, if we got Ben Wallace and lost Mo, I still think we'll need a big man offensive creator from the 4 or 5 spots. Wallace would be a good fit alongside Mo, but would be a disaster in place of. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
I think Mo plays much better defense than KT, so I don't follow you there. And KT isn't much of a shotblocker either. And neither KT or Walt is near as good a fit in team chemistry as Mo is, if I'm watching the same team. C'mon now, Kenny is a better defender than Mo Taylor, no question. He's a better position defender, he uses his body better, he's more of a shotblocking presence than Mo(not to say either of them even provide real shotblocking), and he doesn't get into foul trouble like Mo. I'd also like you to name me one game where Mo took a charge. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited June 29, 2001).]
Mo was the best guy on this team at taking charges, imho. I guess you guys really see things differently, because positioning on defense is the one area I think Mo far exceeds KT. And if you watch tapes from some of the games Mo got into foul trouble, you'll notice a good percentage are him making up for Steve, Cat, or Shandon's mistakes and having to stop a man from getting an open layup. His foul trouble didn't often come from guarding his man in one on one situations. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Good defensive bigmen, like on the Lakers, Spurs, and 76er's, can make up for their guards shortcomings without getting into foul trouble on a consistent basis. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists
Googs is 32, not exactly old. Vin is a headcase right now but if you look at his numbers last year they're right about where Mo's have always been. He actually outrebounded Mo but then again who doesn't outrebound Mo? Googs and Baker have had considerably more success in this league than softie Mo. I think with the trade of Uncle Cliffy, Googs will finally get his job back and we'll see what Baker does. I would put my money on Googs and Baker to outperform softie Mo this upcoming season. We'll see... ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
