Why all the "cocky" comments from mavs?

It's tough, because there is no clear line....was Jordon over confident by sticking his tongue out at times...I mean, that's serious show-boating and cockiness. Is Shaq overconfident for all his cocky statements? But we all know that he's actually a really nice guy who loves kids and can make fun of himself.

I think that's what it is...it's in being both cocky and humble. Being able to say "yeah, I am flawed, I am human", but also understanding that life can't be lived that way all the time, you got to pump yourself out a little, stick your chest out, and put yourself out there...or you'll never push the envelop. If you only stick with what you know you can do, how can you really be that amazing? Taking risks isn't humble, it's completely against it...but if no one took risks, how boring of a world would it be?

 

That makes sense.

You know, I love the trash-talking...it's gamesmenship to me...it's your opponent saying to you "hey, are you going to take this, c'mon, give me what you got...I want it"

In sports, it seems the trend is toward everyone being afraid of motivating the other team, of getting them worked up. I miss that...it made for better competition, more fire!

 

I completely agree. I miss some old fashioned trash talking that was so common in the late 80s and throughout the 90s.

It is not a sign of disrespect, it is a sign of players enjoying the competition and bringing out the best in each other.

I don't see anything wrong with it, but I understand why some people might dislike that and perceive it as "cocky".

 

I still got some work to do, but let me reply this for the last time. You guys twist and spin really fast and really good

YOu said if you are good, you have to think that you are the best, and no one can beat you. I told you that if you are full of yourself, you wouldn't have a clear mind, to adjust facing difficulties. I gave you Amare as an example, and Barkley and Dampier as well. You ignored that and swtiched back to CEOs, and claimed that I could not find a CEO who's not cocky, I am not sure how many CEOs for fortune 500 you personally know, but as i could watch from interviews, conference calls, only a very few were very cocky to me. They are all smart guys, they know cockiness is not welcomed in us "bottom layer", why would they taunt to us? They still have a product to sell or a reputation of organization to maintain.

One thing you were right, we might talk about cockiness in different perceptions.

As for New Yorker, all you did was giving me examples that certain successful player or person was cocky. You never proved your bold statement that you need to be cocky to be successful. It's like some people in New York City are successful, but you can never reach to the conclusion that the whole population of NYC are successful, nor you could say that you have to live in NYC to be successful.

I am not upset with some showmanship, why would I? it's show business. I just don't get it why people got so caught up here with the way players show rather than actual game. Jordon sticked his tongue out, it was his habit, nothing cocky about it, for me, whether it's natural or acting, it's his personal gesture. But with him as example, more and more players do the same move, I am not upset with it, I just feel it laughable. It's not like if you stick your tongue out, you will become MJ.

Some confident players couldn't help themselves, when they face media or opponents, they liked to show their cockiness. It's their nature, personaly, I don't like it, but it's not like I can change that. But I don't get it why some people here need to praise that as the key to winning. What exactly does those cockiness serve? Pump your own confidence, I thought they were "the best, never thought of anybody could beat them", why do they need that pump? To discourage or scare opponents? Never heard of any successful cases. It only motivates the opponents. Then why would it become the key to success?

I would prefer the Rockets to beat opponents on the court, let the score speak, and save the trash talk, taunting, and cockiness. Otherwise, if you lose, you only make yourself a laugh stock, just like Dampier.

 

If you are COCKY, prove to everyone why are you cocky (Shaq, Deion Sanders, Dennis Rodman, Muhammad Ali). These are players that have tons of talent and love show biz.

If you are COCKY and DO NOT prove it, you will end up looking like a fool later (Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, Mad Max, Eric Dampier).

If you are CONFIDENT, prove to everyone why you are confident (Jordan, Dr.J , Isiah, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem). They were *all* business. None of these guys showed up their opponents; no slapping the backboard, grabbing their crotches after dunks, hanging on the rim or yelling at the crowd. They just played the game hard and celebrated with their teams mates (high-fives).

If you are CONFIDENT, and DO NOT prove it. There's nothing to be ashamed of. You tried, but you always showed your opponents respect.

TMac should follow in the footsteps of Jordan, Dr. J, Isiah, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Hakeem.

Note: Jordan was one of the few that could also be in the 1st group (show biz), but chose to be all business most of the time. Magic loved show biz. But really wasn't cocky. He was over-exuberant; happy!

 

Jordon totally showed up his opponents! You think sticking his tongue out wasn't rubbing it in? Or when he would hit those shots and look back at the opposing bench and smile?

Hakeem and McDyess talked some trash between them, and I'm sure Hakeem would do more if he could actually speak english without a thick accent. You don't get into fights without having a little cockiness, and Hakeem had a few. I think the world of Hakeem, but I don't put him on a pedestal either. He was the greatest center, and a truly cool guy, but man, he was a cocky MF in his way.

 

Jordon stuck his tongue out because it was a habit he picked up form his father. When he'd concentrate for a dunk he's stick his tongue out kinda like someone that squints when they think real hard. It was just a reaction by habit. Read a few books/watch a few vids on the guy.

"Another influence was his father, James, who used to stick his tongue out while working on the family car in the Jordan backyard in Wilmington, N.C. A rule of tongue: If it's out, the shot's in."- Sports Illustrated 1984

My point is that they could back it up. Read my "NOTE." Most of the time they were all business. There's nothing wrong with being cocky. As long as you can back it up!

As far as "Hakeem and McDyess talked some trash between them." Emphasis, "some trash." That far from the Deion Sanders/Gary Payton trash talking. Most of the time Hakeem was humble (Hakeem, not Akeem) and a hardworker. I'm trying to make a distinction. I'm not taking an absolutist position like you are.

 

This isn't about business, but dude, CEO's are big freakin bastards, and they have to be to avoid getting eaten alive. No investor would have any faith in a CEO they smelled an once of weakness in...and that means NEVER being humble in front of anyone. When's the last time you saw a CEO apologize in public?
Imagine what they do behind closed doors!

Let's get to the point, we are all talking about Yao. Frankly, I'd like to see Yao get cocky and taunt a little, put a stake down...he needs to stop being such a nice guy to everyone. He's getting dunked on, getting pushed around, and that's where being cocky and intimiating your opponents, exerting one's personality over them, becomes key. Yao must do that, that is ultimately how he will earn respect from the officials, but showing perceived strength.

Yeah yeah yeah, we all love the silent strong type who's the everyday hero - but guess what, sports doesn't work that way. It's about male ego, it's about cockiness....it's about domination and showmanship. IT'S A GAME for god's sake man. A GAME!

If you can't play a game and be cocky, what the hell??? IT's not the UN...world peace is not on the line....it's about WINNING, and doing anything and everything to get the MENTAL edge over ones opponent. Whatever it is, however it is, but it must be done. And frankly, it's fun to watch and makes for great drama.

Bring back taunting and trash-talking I say. Will it hurt Mr. Sterns aim to turn the NBA into "family" entertainment - hell yeah, but geez, if i want family entertainment, i'll turn to the disney channel. I want to see basketball, and the essence of basketball is a little trash-talking and taunting, it's showmanship, it's cockiness and male aggression in it's purist for. Take that out of sports, and you're casterating the future of the sport.

 

Delete

 

Thanks for the compliment

Fine, forget CEOs, just think of your immediate boss at work. Obviously the first rule of anything is that "there are always exceptions", but let's tvalk about how most bosses treat their employees or the people whom they are in charge of. I don't know about you, but I have had different bosses in my time and their attitude never reflected anything that could be described as "humble"; they without exception were cocky people who used their position of power/influence to make work as hard as it can be. That "dominant" trait (call it alpha male if you want to) is something that I guarantee you will find in MOSt (not all of course) of the CEOs and other successful/higher-up people in our society.

I think it is important to note that the reason this is something that works is really to the nature of our society. We are a capitalist society, and capitalism is characterized by its "cut-throat" nature, where people compete vigorously to top one another and get something before the other guy does. In our society, it is every man for himself. IF you want to compete and be successful in our society, you will need to be the aggressor; the "hustla" mentality if you will.

So being the aggressor and as confident in yourself as you can be, as you can see, becomes a necessary component to success.

I think this 'capitalist' mentality is so prevelant in America, and has become an almost necessary formula for "making it big". Again, there are always exceptions to every rule, but it really is more of a product of our society, and man as a "social" animal conforms to his surroundings.

How about YOU prove otherwise?

Again, I SERIOUSLY haven't seen much from the Rockets' side that could be defined as "cocky". I REALLY and honestly think that the Rockets are easily one of the most professional teams in this league, they conduct themselves the right way. At the same time, you HAVE to be a man and not let anyone run over you without responding. When Dampier and Finely were talking trash before the series even started, they began the whole thing, and that put the Rockets players in the position of having to retaliate with their own "trash-talking". To initiate it is one thing, to respong to signs of disrespect from an opponent is quiet another.

 

You're trying to win a debate...I'm trying to make a point.

Understand the difference?

Point: Trash talk is something done by nearly everyone at some point. It's part of the game...to try to take it out would is actually worse then the worst trash-talkers being allowed to trash-talk.

Cockiness is key. It forces you into a position. If you never say or doing anything cocky, you're never committed. Yao, because he is not cocky, never has anything to defend. He has no reputation to stick up for - no one can call out his manhood, because he doesn't claim to have any.

Dampier, is cocky...he made a claim to be the 2nd best center in the league. And ya know what, Yao put up better numbers, but Dampier outmuscled Yao especially in later games. Dampier was called out by his teammates, they appealed to his pride, and Dampier can respond by putting up a strong game like tonight.

You can't do that to Yao. You can't call him out, because he doesn't take a stand. He stays way too humble, and when you do have any cockiness, you don't have a ****.

Yao should have said this "Eirk Dampier says he's the second best center? - Maybe in China"

That's what Yao should have said. But he didn't. And because of that, he has nothing to defend. Nothing to put his money where is mouth is. Gotta be tough man...this isn't the company league!

 

Let's look at the 1995 Championship - the heart of a champion team, and disect it a little:

Hakeem Olajuwon - humble? "I don't need a trophy to tell me that I am now a champion." A great quote to be sure, but certainly not humble...

Clyde Drexler - definitely humble nice guy. Couldn't win a championship on his own either....

Sam "I am" Cassell - **** sucker numero uno
Robert Horry - neutral
Mario Elie - Big time cocky guy - enforcer type
Kenny the Jet - cocky, just watch TNT

Outside of Drexler, the rest of the team was super cocky. Hakeem was modest, but you don't juke people and show up david robinson and not have at least a wry smile on your face

 

If you make a statement about Jordan. Make sure you have your facts straight before you make a claim. Especially when you it use to back up your absolute claim. That's why I called you on it. Debate? Eh... (shrug). If you try to make a point that has errors. I'll point it out.

Next, the thread was about Mavs fans complaining about TMac/Sura/Barry. The thread now has shifted to "you need to be cocky to win (your point)." Now, it's about Yao's lack of cockiness....ok...

Daimpier needs to be *called out* to play better? Hmmm, not sure I'd bet on him for the rest of the serise. He's playing above his limits (overachieving). He played as hard as he could and still was dominated by Yao. Dampier has to play over his abilty to make a difference. That's fine when your teammates call you out -- Dirk's leadership. But not in the long run. Because it's not coming from THAT player. It's coming from an outside force.

Players are what they are. All you are doing is wishful thinking in regards to Yao. Yao will be be aggressive as long as his training improves his abilities. But if you are waiting for him to start talking trash just because he'll have to defend it. You'll be waiting along time. That's not the way he is. He's much wiser than that.

The most you'll ever get out of Yao is "Let my play speak for itself." That was his response to Dampier claim that he was the 2nd best center.

What? Does Duncan? He just plays the game AGGRESSIVELY! Not everyone has to ACT during the game the way YOU want them to. You are trying to change Yao demeanor. He's going to act his way. You can't do anything about it. As far as his play, he's going to be aggressive sometimes. But he'll never be cocky.

Wow! Brilliant statement. NOT!

 

All you are doing is showing examples of what thoes players did/said AFTER they won the tiles. They earned it. And maybe they have a bit more leeway to says a few brash statements after a few titles. But...

You are confusing cocky personality with aggressive play. Yao is not Mario Elie. He will never be -- personally wise. Take Duncan for example. He's doesn't have Mario's personality. Yet, he's aggressive and relentless just like Mario. Do you understand? Yao is aggressive sometimes. But rarely cocky. And that wont change. It's his aggressiveness that must improve. And that will come with more training and experience.

Actually it kinda is humble. He saying that a trophy is just a piece of metal. He saying that it doesn't define a man. He's saying that he's still a "champ" in the eyes of many fans/family even if he didn't win the title.

He's not implying that he's a cocky son-of-a-bit*ch that doesn't need a damn trophy! That's the way you are interpreting it.

 

Wow! Who would have thought that a thread about "cockiness" as going to have such great content? Great job guys! (New Yorker, DavidS, real_egal, rox girl, and others

 

LOL! Definite sig material

Mods, you have one more "Clutch Classic" quote on your hand

 

Anyway, I'm so tired - you're not being cocky, just an arrogant pain in the ass. Every response is always some sort of defense attack....why the chip on your shoulder dude....take a chill pill and just say we disaggee. I made my point, you choose to ignore it, so there....why not end it? I mean, i can't argue with you all night...

By the way, Jordon sticking his tongue out wasn't anything but a way for him to taunt

 

Personally I think trash talking is bull****. Sports are fun in of itself, just play the damn game. An awesume TD pass and catch, a clutch shot, alley opp with guys in sync--let the game do the talking. My preference anyway.

As far as the rest, maybe it is semantics. Extreme self confidence can be called narcissitic personality disorder. Most of these types would never be CEOs because they would not recognize their weakness or get enough people to support them.

I laid out my distinction in terms. Hakeem was humble and showed humility--he recognized he could keep becoming a better player by working and never went out of his way to show up opponents. You can still be these things and think none can stop you on the basketball court--that is self-confidence.

To me cockiness is when you are trying to show up opponents just to do it. It may or may not come with self-confidence (could be insecurity as well).

Think about it, the best of the best don't worry about others because they are already the best. Guys like Tiger Woods, Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan, they have to set their internal goals to get better, they can't just set out to be better than Joe, Dick and Bill.

 

I know this was not aimed at me, but I selected this for a point. To me "cockiness" fits much closer to "arrogance" (or conceitedness) than it is to self-confidence. Granted this is semantics, but that is how I see it.