This brings up a point I've always wondered... most of the players of that era absolutely stank shooting the ball, from the stats I've seen. Bob Cousy - career 37.5% shooter. Pathetic. Oh, and btw : Wilt shot 54% for his career - he obviously didn't put team first because anyone that puts team first has to have a sucky FG%. Ah yes, the Bob Horry Award for Clutchness. Don't really do much on offense until the end and somehow you get credit for being "clutch". Hey, do it for 40 mins/game. And like I said - Russell won those championships by himself, right? The other HOF's on that team had nothing to do with it? Sorry man, in the contest of "Greatest NBA Player Ever", Russell is not in the top 5. Wilt is the greatest to ever play this game. Russell was on one of the greatest teams to play the game, but he was nowhere near the greatest to play the game simply because he couldn't stop the greatest to play the game - and he was known for defense.
I'm joining this discussion late.... for me it's Magic. Ask me to pick one player to start a team, and I choose Magic. So versatile...such a smart player...made EVERYONE better...won at a very young age, and was THE MAN. Magic Johnson. And I hated him!!! But I still say Magic.
Never hated Magic, but I agree with you on the rest. High School, College and NBA champion in a 4 year span. Jordan can't even say that. Where Jordan worked hard to be the best, it was a natural ability that got Magic to the top.
I said Wilt was an exception, I'd like to add that Russell was in the top 5 in FG% five years in his career. The HOF's on the Celtics were in a way overrated, because of the fact that without the rings a couple of them wouldn't of made the Hall of Fame. Lets say the Spurs go on to win 4 more championships, leaving Bruce Bowen with 6, he gets into the Hall of Fame. Statistically and talent wise he doesn't belong, but because of those 6 rings he does, why does he have those 6 rings? Tim Duncan. Eddie Jones on the other hand has an individual career much greater than his, but doesn't get into the Hall because he doesn't have the rings. 12-6-2, 7-4-4, 16-4-3, 17-5-3 those numbers made the Hall of Fame! Decent numbers, from good players, but not Hall of Fame type numbers or talents. Russell was on a few of the greatest teams, all of the championships weren't won with the same group of players though outside of Russell. I'm not exactly positive on these numbers, but I believe Bob Cousy won 5, Sharmon won 3, and Havlicek won 6. Three of the players who won the most with him were Sam and KC Jones and Tom Heinshon, neither in the class of Cousy, Sharmon and Havlicek. Especially KC Jones who made it just like a Bruce Bowen would have to make it, defense and nothing great statistically. You keep bringing up not being able to stop Wilt, that's not fair, name someone who did. Did Hakeem stop Shaq? Again, Russell was also as unstoppable as Wilt, just in different ways. Nobody could stop Wilt from scoring and dominating, and nobody could stop Russell from winning. I know everyone thinks Wilt played with a bunch of scrubs, not true, he played with HoFs as well and still had a hard time beating Russell. When he was with Philly he played with Hal Greer, Billy Cunningham, and Chet "The Original Jet" Walker. Russell at the time was playing with Havlicek, Sam Jones, and Bailey Howell. 2 Hofs (Greer and Cunningham) with Wilt (although Chet would of been one had he won more), and Russell played with 3, but only one who would of been there for sure without the rings. Wilt still couldn't beat him, only beat him once with that 68 win team that is still arguably the best team in history. Now, if Wilt was so much better than Russell then why did he only beat him once out of four times with those teams? Talent or the number of Hall of Famers can't be used as an excuse with those teams, Wilt played with more talent and basically the same number of Hall of Famers. Then there was that Laker team Wilt was on with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor that lost to the heavy underdog Celtics in seven games, again more talent, but he still couldn't beat him. I'm still fine with anyone's opinion that Wilt was better than Russell though, he was the greatest individual basketball player probably even athlete of all time, but I think winning is the best measure of a players worth. That's all I got... Peace!
I put Robert Horry into your player rater just for kicks...his 5 championships give him 15 points to start out with; with the rest of his stats I have him at 16.911, above Tim Duncan's 15.794...
And yet it was usually Russell who won head to head. I think Wilt was better, he was just too big. Anyway, this is all so subjective. You can make a case for any of these great players...which is why they had to just come up with the 50 greatest, and boy, i bet the 51st best player had something to gripe about. Greatest for what reason? Would Chavez rate higher then Ali? You can't compare really. So you could say, greatest pound for pound, greatest in the clutch, greatest over the longest period of time, greatest for their contribution to the game, greatest for the number of championships, greatest because they struck the most fear in their opponents... I feel Jordan was the best ever...because he did it all. He changed the game both in how the game is played and stylistically (longer shorts), he phenomenal in the Clutch, he brought in 6 championships and put up great numbers throughout his career except when he mistakenly made his second comeback - and he was the most feared player in the NBA. Finally, he could do it all. Pass, score, defense, whatever.
The shorts were getting longer well before the Fab Five. But they might have taken it to extremes....which is now normal. Jordan did start the bald head look. Thank goodness for that.
I think it is a tie between Wilt and Kareem. Wilt had a higher peak, but Kareem did it longer, and still was near the very best players in his prime. A lot has already been posted about Wilt, so I will put some Kareem stuff out there. He was undoubtedly the greatest college player of all time, doing rediculous things at UCLA. He came into the league with the Bucks and won the title alongside the big O and later got 5 more with Magic. He also racked up 6 MVP awards, which is more than anyone else. He is the all-time leading scorer, and it looks like the only guy that had a chance to pass him (Kung-fu Karla) is going to retire at #2. He also faced, by far, more great centers than any other player.
Certainly Kareem was no where past his prime in 76. I would ask one question...what significant change took place in the NBA after the 75 season? The NBA / ABA merger. I certainly think there was an influx of qualilty big men after that which certainly effected Kareem. Kareem won an MVP in 1980 sandwiched in between 3 Moses Malone MVP's during the same time period that Moses outplayed Kareem when big Mo was with the Rockets and 76ers. I am of the oppinion that had Malone spent most of his prime years in Philly or almost all of his career in LA or NY then he would be in every conversation when talking about the greatest centers of all time. Having said that I still think Dream was better.
but really, he basically came along at the end of russell and wilt and then got out before the hakeem/robinson/ewing trio got going and never faced shaq. those last 4 had to go through the toughest gauntlet of centers ever.
Jordan did start the long shorts, which didn't just change the length of basketball players' shorts - it changed how EVERYONE wears their shorts today. Same with him and baldness - he singlehandedly made it not only acceptable, but cool to be bald. His impact was incredible. He also gets my vote for the greatest of all-time. I haven't read most of this thread, but the single most impressive accomplishment for me is the 72 wins. That is just amazing. One guy has more rings (Russell). But no one has 72 wins.
These is my list: 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2. Wilt Chamberlain 3. Larry Bird 4. Bill Russell 5. Michael Jordan 6. Magic Johnson 7. George Mikan 8. Oscar Robertson 9. Jerry West 10. Elgin Baylor
I would take Hakeem any day. Not because he is a Rocket, just because he was the greatest player. A lot of people don't see this because he is not as "out there" publically boasting about himself and because of that not much media has been focused on him. If he were more arrogant then he would have been thought of as one of the greatest players.
