Francis is more physically gifted, Murph was one of the all time great shooters. I am old enough to have seen a good portion of Murph's career, Rip is right, he was an amazing ball handler. I still remember being very young and watching Calvin in a shooting war with Maravitch of the New Orleans Jazz...it was amazing, my love of basketball was born before that day, but that was the day it left its infancy.
Ok I've never saw Calvin play just a "tad" before my time. But I do know that he was a Hall of Fame point guard. I have yet to see a hall of fame point guard out of Steve Francis, so Im going with the Murth till Steve proves me otherwise
i cannot believe there are people that are saying a 5th year point guard that has led the league in turnovers, never learned to adequately play his position, and never led his team to the playoffs, is better than a hall of fame player. unbelievable.
Francis is a better athlete. Murph was a better shooter and floor leader. Francis is a much less annoying person, though.
pgabriel, because the eras are so different (illegal d vs. no illegal d; 3 point empasis vs. no 3 point line for majority of murph's career; no travelling and carrying allowed vs. anything goes) it is impossible to switch the players and say "francis" would have done this or "murph" couldn't have done that. it's just impossible to fairly do so. what you have to look at is what that player was able to accomplish with the team that they did have. murphy succeed (hell, he thrived to a HOF career) with the teams he had...as a midget player...the first true midget player in a tough, smack you in the mouth nba. francis has been deigned "the franchise", has all the cute moves that are so popular in today's nba, yet has not even gotten his team into the playoffs. further, murphy played the shooting guard at a much higher level than francis has played the point guard. forget the numbers. if you watched the games, murph was an outstanding 2 guard. there was never any questions (once he switched to the 2) of whether or not murph was a great 2 guard. it was an accepted fact. but francis still has many, many questions over whether or not he is a good point guard. hell, i'll be the first one to say he is NOT a good point guard. if he was, he wouldn't be talking about moving to the 2 guard. so, if mastery of your position is to be discussed, it's not even close - murphy in a landslide. defensively, it's not close either, imo. despite murphy being vertically challenged, he had no problems hiking his socks up and getting up in your face. francis is a matador. ole!! for those that say that murphy's college career got him in the hall of fame, you a partially correct. he was a terror at niagara. though i am too young to remember his niagara days, i have seen the stats and numbers like that are too gaudy to dismiss. however, it was not the college career alone that got murphy into the hall. if that were the case, chris jackson will be a hall of famer, as well...and we know that's not going to happen. murphy's in the HOF because of 1) his nba career 2) breaking the mold of little men not being able to thrive in the nba 3) his college career last, murphy in today's nba, imo, would be even more successful. murphy was 10X the ballhandler that francis is. if you allowed murphy to carry and travel, he'd average 30 a game. also, in today's nba, murphy could penetrate and pull up from 10-15 feet with little to no resistance from the defense. guys don't even defend the midrange game anymore. it's all 3s and dunks. murphy, with his ability to shoot from 22 feet on in, off of spot ups and pull ups, would be devastating. long live murph....my original favorite rocket.
Nice post, but its harder to guard the point guards in today's league although Murphy is a better defensive player. Murphy didn't have to play point guard and even playing shooting guard he didn't average what Steve has averaged in his first four years. I like Murphy to, but he wouldn't not score thirty a game. Are you telling me that Murphy would lead the league in scoring???? I doubt it, and defenses are better now.
pgab, as "the man"..."the franchise" that is...the "primary offensive option" you don't think murphy could have averaged more ppg? also, the defenses are not better today. not at defending the midrange game. no one defends the midrange game anymore. the only thing that nba teams do against the midrange game, now, is slap their best one-on-one defender on that player (bruce bwen, for example). other than that, the midrange game is wide open today. why do you think guys like glen robinson and sam cassell are in the nba? it's not their ability to get in the paint, nor their ability to shoot the 3 ball. this is the reason you hear murphy always chirping about steve francis needing to shoot more "stop and pops." it's because it is ALWAYS open in today's nba. the common nba defender now plays you one of three ways: 1) give up the three and stop the drive 2) give up the drive and stop the three 3) leave you open because you're the worst shooter on the floor none of these truly address the midrange game. btw, off topic somewhat, but who do you think has the best midrange game in the nba currently?
Part of the reason it is hard to evaluate these two against each other has to do with roles, and playing within them. I saw some basketball during Murph's era, though i was a kind, didn't understand the game, and wasn't yet a fan of the Rockets, or any other team, so I can only really comment based on rep, clips, and the odd game on Classic. But based on what I know, here is the big difference: Calvin was only really asked to do one thing; score...and he did that very, very well. He didn't create for others, didn't defend, didn't rebound...and didn't have to. Steve tires to do all the above, except defense...and while he's not really exceptionl at aynthing but scoring and rebounding, his role demands that he attempt to do a lot more things than Murphy had to...as such, we see a greater number of problems with Steve, turnovers, his defficiencies in those areas, etc. than we would have seen from Murphy. In short, Murphy seems to have been a lot more efficient, and to have played 'within himself' a lot more at least in part because he could...Steve is asked to do a lot more, and as a result can't just concentrate on scoring. I am not defending Steve here...he has weaknesses...but Murphy would likely have seemed a lot more erratic if he, too, had had to do what Francis does.
Exactly Macbeth, all Murph had to do was score and I bet if all Francis had to do was score he would do it very well. Best mid range game, Walley Szczerbiak, Peja Stojakovic, Bibby, Houston, Ray Allen, off the top of my head. I would put Walley number one.
