Practice, we taking about practice...... <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDBR2L5kzI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eGDBR2L5kzI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Dumb poll but it can be educational. Comparatively, these two guys emphasize two aspects of NBA basketball players: AI: The on-the-court warrior who plays with complete passion but who isn't dedicated to practice and repetition like he should be. AI's toughness is legendary, but why hasn't he developed a dead-eye jumpshot? Because he hasn't practiced enough. VC: The on-the-court softy with incredible skills that were honed with hours and hours of off-the-court repetition. VC has done things other players could only dream of. Tracy McGrady also falls into this category. Over their careers, players like VC and Tracy have put in the practice time to become magicians with the basketball. But when it comes to leaving it all out on the basketball court during games (especially when it gets physical), they are both noted for coming up short on a regular basis.
Are you implying that a dead-eye jumpshot is automatically gained through practice? Just like when AI made those ridiculous statements, people still think he doesn't practice. There is no way you get that good without practicing. His lack of an outside shot is no indication that he doesn't practice. And i think VC probably practiced the least of all. He has shown minimal progression, at best, over his career.
I did NOT say AI doesn't practice at all. I said he doesn't practice ENOUGH. His attitude about practice is well documented. If he was a practice warrior like MJ, Bird and Magic, AI could have been an all-time great. Your comments on VC are also wrong. When he first came into the NBA, he was mostly just an athletic freak ("half-man, half-amazing"). His handles and long-range shooting improved immensely his first 4-5 years before leveling off.
I usually agree with most of your posts to some degree, but I completely disagree here. First off, a jumpshot isn't something you can get through practice. You can improve it to make it adequate through practice, but being a "pure shooter" is an innate quality - some guys have that eye for it, some don't. Secondly, I would argue that Iverson's ball handling is an indication of his hard work off the court. He's one of the best ball handlers in the history of the game - it's basically an extension of his palm. You don't get that without endless practice. Finally, you described Vince Carter as a "magician" with the basketball, but I would have to greatly disagree. Iverson is the magician. Vince Carter has decent handles at best for a swingman, and can look pretty sloppy at times. I would argue that Vince is largely a product of his freakish athleticism, plus he also has atleast decent size for a basketball player. Iverson is quick, sure, but he would be nothing with even an average point guard level handle. McGrady is a totally different case. He is a magician as you said, but basically a girl on the court. Your post raises an interesting point though in that I've always wondered why people give such little attention to ball handling ability. To me, in a swingman, that might be the most important ability, yet in every scouting report, you never see any emphasis on that. All the attention goes towards athleticism and shooting. Every elite swing - Wade, McGrady, Kobe, Michael Jordan can handle the basketball like a point guard. If you can dribble the ball, you can go anywhere on the court. Why isn't this emphasized?
all are known quitters, but one quit in the freakin' playoffs when you're playing for something at stake. and yea, one doesn't go to practice and doesn't believe practice makes you or the team better. and yea, one of them play less D than the other 2 COMBINED. but all 3 are nothing to brag about in terms of heart. one just falls down more than the other b/c he's a buck 60.
I'll take a player who doesn't practice over one that tells the other team what play I'm about to run.
you get a jumpshot THROUGH practice. being a dead eye/great shooter isn't a talent, but it's a SKILL. ballhandling is a SKILL that can be acquired through practice. quickness/strength/height are natural raw talent that are god given (genes). if you saw tmac's jumpshot in toronto in his earlier yrs, you would not have predicted he would be this great of a scorer throughout his career. he said he took 1000 jumpshots a day the summer he got traded to orlando, which is when he started to blossom. iverson has never been known to practice his jumper (which is why he is a career 40% shooter). most of the years he scored a lot, he took AT LEAST 25 shots a game. the one year he averaged 31ppg, he took a whopping 27 shots a game. but he does work on his ballhandling, but the thing that really makes his so great is his quickness. dude is a BLUR. iverson goes a lot through natural talent (he outquicks a lot of the guys who guard him). vince and tmac actually put a lot of work into their game. you don't get those step-backs, fallaway, fadeaway, 3pt shot jumpers without putting in a lot of work on the court (go try the shots they try on the court at home yourself or ask even a star NBA player like lamar odom and they would struggle to do it). their height and size are "natural" talent, but throughout their career, their game has been molded through A LOT of practice. HOWEVER, both vince and tracy are VERY fragile and mentally weak at times when things don't go well (hence they quit on their team during the reg. season). but the thing with tracy is, that was more of his battle with the GM john weisbrod than the team. and we all know when the playoffs rolls around, tracy puts just as much effort onto the court as anybody. iverson and carmelo anthony actually quit in the playoffs on national TV. i really think most people on this board don't actually play basketball. jumpshooting is an innate quality? i started to play basketball when i was in 5th grade and couldn't do jack obviously. now i'm one of the best shooters on my team with decent ballhandling. that simply took a lot of the time at the park playing 3 times a week. and cabbage, a "pure shooter" are guys who simply stand and shoot. they become that b/c all they do is practice their shots in the gym (novak - ask him what he does when he practices with the rockets). there's a reason a guy like michael redd isn't as good of a ballhandler/playmaker b/c he mostly works on his individual offense when he trains.
lol @ your personal anecdotal evidence to back up your argument. i personally don't give a damn though its amusing. nothing you said undermined my argument, and quite frankly it's obvious you didn't understand my point judging by your response in citing T-Mac. I was questioning A_3PO's assertion regarding being a 'deadeye shooter' through practice and you cite T-Mac taking 1000 shots a day in Orlando to get better? Uhh wtf...I made that distinction in my original post. You can improve your shot to make it adequate, which he has done, but no amount of practice can make you a 'deadeye' shooter unless it's in you. T-Mac is not a deadeye shooter. If you think so, then I don't know what to tell you. as far as novak and redd, i honestly have no idea what your point is on that.
look at all the "heart" Steve Francis supposedly possesses...yet, for all the crap Tmac gets, Mcgrady's accomplished more in his career. Heart is overrated. thinking someone has more heart just because they were on a team that's gone deep in the playoffs is false logic. players have more heart because of the amount of work and hustle they put in their game. that doesn't always lead to success in the playoffs, not b/c they didn't try hard enough, but b/c of other circumstances like their teammates not performing or the other team just happened to be that much better.
you said "dead-eye" shooter is an innate quality. that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. i simply said ask novak what he does ONLY in practice and you know why he's a dead-eye shooter b/c all he does is shoot, shoot, shoot till his arms fall off. tmac is not a dead-eye shooter, but he shot 45% in those years. i simply said nobody expected him to shoot that well during his orlando years with that 3pt range considering the stroke that he had in toronto. he got MUCH better with PRACTICE. if you can only get "adequately" better with your jumpshot like you said with practice, oh man, you must have been a horrible basketball player.
You're just selecting upon the dependent variable. That's like me saying you can grow 7 feet tall by drinking milk and then pointing to a 7 footer that drank milk as my evidence. It doesn't work that way. Novak's a great shooter because he practiced AND he had it within him. I can point to a bunch of other NBA players who also practice it and aren't nearly as great shooters. Umm, that's what I just said. He got better through practice. He's still not a great shooter. If your game is as weak as your logic, you probably suck. Great shifting the scope to a normal person (lol @ yourself in the park) from the discussion of NBA players. Of course any regular douchebag can become a relatively great shooter compared to other normal people. Thanks Captain Obvious! We're talking about NBA players. For an NBA player, Tracy McGrady is not a 'dead eye shooter.' He vastly improved his shot through practice - I hedged for that in my original post. No amount of anecdotal evidence of your ass practicing in the park is applicable to this, LOL. Michael Jordan was never a great long distance shooter in his career. You think Michael Jordan didn't practice that ***** for hours? You think the difference between a guy like say, Brent Barry who can hit 50% on 3's, and MJ who hit 40% in his best year (which is still good) was their amount of practice?
Look at cabbage just dominating Chamberlain-style. They're going to have to change the dimensions of the court!
to your first point, how do you know those guys practice that hard? did they learn to improve their stroke and technique? did they watch basketball tapes to evaluate their style of shooting? and please, don't put michael jordan in this conversation. i'm sure his 38% 3pt average one year was just indicative of his practice. i'm sure 38% is not "that good." you're comparing a guy who shoots tough contested shots (and shoot 50% for his career and 38% 3pt shot--generally 34-35% for the last half of his career) to a guy like brent barry and novak who only shoots open jumpers. but like i said, jordan practiced enough to bring it up to 38%. and i'm sure jordan can hit 50% of his 3s in the NBA if all he gets are WIDE OPEN shots like brent barry. shows how much you know about the game of basketball. a contested shot to a wide open shot? a guy who always gets doubled to a guy who nobody really guards? it's easy to be known as a dead-eye shooter that way. jordan was a great shooter (look at his ft% to know his stroke). give him the types of shots barry sees and he might shoot even better. did you watch NBC's telecast of the spain-us game earlier today? they said kobe made 30/35 3pt shots in practice. i'm sure that's just as good right? he's not known as a "dead-eye" shooter per say b/c he's much better than just a spot up shooter, but a great all-around scorer, but he PRACTICED his 3pt shots and it's been lethal these past few yrs. watch more buddy.
he's comparing jordan to brent barry's shooting % - a guy who gets doubled/tripled to a guy who gets wide open shots. antisonic, needs a refresher in bball 101?
