Who's going to check Harden for his weak ass defense

The Cavs don't try during the regular season so their defensive ranking is always deceptively low. During playoffs when they turn on the switch, it operates at an elite level as we saw last season.

 

But but you cant rebuild on a 33 year old guy no not even ledouche

 

He's keeping it Trill.

 

Define "elite".

In last season's playoffs the Cavs were 8th in pts per 100 possessions (108.3). 8th out of 16 teams isn't really elite. The Rockets were 4th (107.1) and they were far from elite.

http://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Playoffs

 

+1

Beat me to it

 

Exactly, I’ve never understood why people expect Harden to be one of the best defensive players on the floor in addition to his already great offense acting like it’s sustainable. Harden is not a lockdown defender and never will be. You can’t have a walking bucket at the caliber of Harden and expect him to also burn himself out on the other end, you just can’t. Especially when Hardens game isn’t based on athleticism(#1 aspect of playing D) such as the likes of a Lebron or Giannis, or any other great 2 way players carrying his offensive load. He’s always been a finesse, break you down with the dribble, drain a contested 3 in your face, drive and finish with a soft touch contested layup. It’d be physically impossible for him to efficiently put up the numbers he is now along with his league leading minutes a game he’s been posting for the past 4 years, and to still be GREAT on defense. You’ve got to take the good with the bad.

 

1. His turnovers issue was widely documented last season and is due to how long the ball is in his hands, how many passes he makes for the team since the team had no other options, our pace, etc. There was a list of how long a player dribbles the ball before he turns it over and harden was hardly the worst, just normal middle of the pack among the assist-makers. LeBron averaged higher turnover numbers per ball possession and no one fusses over his ball handling. Maybe the Cavs fan page has a few fussy posters too.

2. Ability to draw fouls is a very desirable skillset. That's like complaining Curry relies only on 3s and if it was pre-3 point shot time he'd be less of a player. Streaky is just what you're looking at at the moment. Plenty of efficiency stats to prove Harden's worth as a shooter.

3. Non-existent defense is an over-exaggeration. Please don't stretch your points like a TV-person in this forum and expect to be taken seriously.

 

Same exact thing could have been said for our team during our coaching search... but look what happened.

Needless to say, I'm very happy with how the Rockets decision to bring MDA has worked out, I have a hard time believing bringing in a defensive minded coach would have worked out better then what Mike has gave us the last 2 seasons.

Another example is the Minny, Twolves are still a awful defensive team (5th worst) despite defensive guru Thibs taking control, they are coasting from their offensive strength (5th best), who know how good they could be with a coach emphasized more on their strengths like MDA has for us.

Sometimes it's best to go full throttle with your greatest strength... while letting others who's greatest strength is YOUR greatest weakness do what they do best (Jeff Bzdelik for MDA, Moute/Tucker for Harden)

 

he does

same charges drawn as Lebron, Anthony Davis more than Steph Curry, Butler, George double that of Durant, Kawhi, Westbrook, Klay
more 2pt shots contested than Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, George, Westbrook, Butler
more 3pt shots contested than Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Curry, Westbrook
more overall shots contested than Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, Westbrook, Butler
same deflections per game as Westbrook and Rondo more than Lebron, Anthony Davis, Durant
same loose balls recorvered per game as Lebron, Anthony Davis, Draymond Green more than Durant and Klay
same defensive reb % as Lebron slight lower than Durant better than Kawhi, George, Butler, Klay, Curry
and lastly, similar defensive rating as Lebron, Avery Bradley, Ariza, slight lower than George

 

Exactly what I thought when I read that post.

It was well documented that last season Harden fell just short of Tiny Archibslds all time record for points generated through scoring and assists. He scored or assisted on 56.6 points per game. This season he is generating a similar number.

I was a bit confused as to how 4.5 TO per game was offsetting that. Apparently, our opponents are somehow scoring 14+ points off of every Harden turnover.

 

so harden has ZERO impact on the floor?

 

People need to stop crying about lack of depth. Luc, CP3 and Capela are all out with injuries. No team plans for injuries to 3 rotation players at the same time, but this team is deep.

People also need to stop comparing the depth to Golden State. Our second and third most important players are out, and a great defender is out. That equates to Curry, Thompson and like, Iguodala, on GS. If you took out those 3 guys, GS will struggle as well, but they will still be a deeper team than us. It is what it is.

Can we be deeper? Of course we can. But are we deep right now, assuming everyone is healthy? YES.

 

Trolls are going to troll.

 

New Orleans spent years building around Chris Paul, giving him Tyson Chandler and David West for both the PnR and PnP. Where did that get them?

Los Angeles spent years building around Chris Paul, pairing him with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan for lob city. Where did that get them?

Houston spent years building around Harden, giving them Lin/Parsons and Dwight. Where did that get them? Farther that anywhere CP3 has ever been.

I'm not saying CP3 can't be the focal point of a championship team - it's just, there's no evidence that he can lead a team to the WCF, despite years of success.

 

Oh, and the reason why Harden doesn't need to be NBA all-defense, is because he has Luc, Trevor and Tucker picking up the slack on the wing, and Capela, inside.

Kyrie? He's got Tatum, Smart, Brown and Horford.
Curry? He's got Durant, Thompson, Green, Iguodala.
Lillard? He has nobody, which is why Portland sucks.

Everyone rags on Harden for being bad defensively, yet doesn't "check" everyone else for their "weak ass" offense.

Why doesn't Ariza constantly drive to the basket? Why doesn't EGo bully people with post-play? Why doesn't Capela take 3s? Why don't any of these people develop more offense?

It's because Harden is there. Harden is the stabilizing offensive force, while everyone else represents team defense.

 

Kinda like!

 

I will. Its just me vs a million of delusional folks. Reminds me of the McHale era.

 

The reason why harden believes in moreyball is simple. 3>2. Defense isn't as important if u can score more points. Harden is a maestro at scoring, he's not gonna lose sleep over not being a lockdown defender.

More why defense isn't as valued. Just saw on reddit Ben Wallace owns 4 dpoy awards, if it was the year 2382 assuming nba still exists he would have own over 1% of the award in existence. U figured the man can get into the hof for defense, I think not.

 

yep rockets are gifted with a once in a generation offensive weapon

yet they drool over tony allen