I'd take Franchise over Mobley any day. Franchise averages more points, rebounds, assists, steals, better fg%, better ft%, and better 3FG%. No doubt about it in my mine. Steve Francis is better then Cat. ------------------ Sorry Clutch; I had to copy the recap headline "the Mo and Fro Show" into my username cause I loved it!
The real question is: Which player's dad, Mobley's or Francis', can kick the other's A$$? ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
I believe Francis has a certain superstar quality that Cuttino just doesn't have. He can take over a game in many categories, rebounding, assists, and scoring. The guy is a triple-dub threat every night. He hustles and does all the little things that superstars do. It seems to me that Cuttino can take over a game, but only the scoring aspect. The game is more than just running plays effectively, and Francis knows it. ------------------ Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is the greatest player in the history of basketball. If you disagree, you are not a Rocket fan.
there is much truth spoken here. Im gonna add some stuff. Steve came out with hype. if the NBA hypes you you are a star. Cat came with NO hype. the he is only getting respect from his own fans in the last 2 months(and you guys know its true ) Cuttino already has a major shoe contract which he had to earn. why dod he get thast contract besides his play. his personality Cat is pwerfect for the league marketers. he is a good looking guy(better than Steve) he always has a quote(A la Barkley) he has NO tatoos(clean cut kid. no cornrows) these differences make Cat a better comodity. not necessarily a better player, but if you score 20/game in this league you ARE a star. if you do it with a smile you are VC (media darling) do it with a scowl you are Iverson(media enemy) sure steve puts up better numbers. if the SG has more assists than hte PG there is something terribly wrong. and since Cat started steve has barely out rebounded him. they both can be stars on their own, but who really wants that. the will both get better numbers with a big rebounder in(like Hakeem healthy) but with that rebounder steves assists go up while his scoring suffers. Cats scoring is better with a rebonder also with these two guards. all of our rebounders look like good passers. if ya get the board, kick it out, you are gonna get the assist. ok im done ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball www.hanta-force.com
HP, I disagree with you about who is more effective with the pick and roll. I think you're sticking to your argument, which you have all season, about who you think runs the play better. I used to think Cat ran it better, but I've just seen Steve get better and better at analyzing the situation on the play. Francis does get to the middle more on that play, because he can dribble around the trapper,get to the middle,and from there he has any option he wants. I love him in this spot, because I feel he's deadly when he gets to the lane. Secondly, I don't think Mooch runs the high pick play with Bullard more effectively than Francis.Mooch has a tougher time getting it to Bullard when he has a bigger guard on him, and he has thrown it away on that play like I saw once or twice in the Hawks game. Also, I see Francis pass more and more to the picker on the baseline when they run 24 high. I understand what you're saying about Cat letting the trap dissolve, but Francis is more likely to beat that trap,get to the middle and scorch the opponent. How can you say he never beats the trap and thus lets them achieve their objective? I see the exact opposite of what you're saying. If anything he tries to beat the trap before it can even form, which is a good thing. Also, I think you've somewhat stereotyped Steve on 24 high. I don't know if you truly recognize how far he's come on that play. As for the ISO's, I don't see him waving his man off at as high a clip as you say. In fact, I think he's pretty successful when he does ISO, which is why Rudy has no real problem with him taking it one on one when 24 high breaks down. You really expect a little too much if you can't see that Francis is a great player. He has been as consistent as any other so called star out there. I certainly can see a large improvement in his game. Not some kind of breakout year improvement, but enough to make me very excited. As for Cat, he has improved leaps and bounds, especially in the second half of the season. He has also been as consistent as anybody, and finds a way, whether he's off or not, to provide the added scoring punch the Rockets need to win. I think their defense has improved at an equal rate, though Cat needs to work on his smarts when defending, and Steve needs to learn to maintain his intensity on D. ------------------ [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited April 09, 2001).]
Ok, I'm not going to write for ever about this crap. A good sensei keeps things short. I think everything I've written speaks for itself. I never said Cat is nothing without Steve, he wouldn't be as good, though. Steve restrains his scoring ability quite a bit. If he took more shots, which he could, he would be one of the game's elite scorers. He doensn't because he wants to win. Other than that, reread everyhting I've written. ------------------
great post TPL....you are the best season ticket eyes I have to bounce things off of. I think we have a fundamental difference of discussion here surrounding the word "trap". Man, we need to sit at a game together. You are saying "trap" to include all traps it seems, and I'm referral solely to the trap of the pick n roll. I trust your eyes, and I think you want to trust mine. I will be the first to say when I feel Francis is getting into the middle at a higher clip in 24-high. Plus, "great player" is not something I denied Francis. I say he is not a "great point guard" addressing fromobile's comments, including all the smarts and instincts it takes to be a great point guard. Sometimes I feel we are always in agreement via objectivity and loving both players, if we could just find a way to agree on what we are discussing. hence my interest in flashing plays. Also, I meant to edit my thing about Moochie running the high pick, but since I had no edits in this last post, I let it stand. Moochie does not run the high pick with Bullard. No one does except Francis. Moochie runs a pnr from the top of the key with Dream and Kenny. He was very successful in our win vs the Lakers doing that. I'll end with this to discuss: Here is where I think you're talking about a half-court trap versus the trap of 24-high. play. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 09, 2001).]
I guess I'm talking about both the half court and 24 high trap. I just have seen him attack that trap on 24 high more often, and because of this, has gotten to the hole more times than not. The one pick and roll I think Mooch is better at than Francis, is the double pick,where he goes right, reverses and gets another screen where he can go to the hole, pass to the corner or throw up the lob. This was the same play where he threw the lob to Francis in the Utah game.He definitely runs that play better than Steve, because he sets his man up better. I agree with you about Francis not being a great true point guard.The great point guards make hard passes look effortless,and have a great sense of court awareness,which are two characteristics Steve does not possess. I look at him as a great player,because he does so many things on the floor, and can take control of games in so many different ways. He can shoot the ball horribly and still play a major role in the outcome of a game.I love Rudy's offensive system, because like you said, it allows 2 shooting guards to play to their strengths, and doesn't hinge on having a classic point guard. ------------------ [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited April 09, 2001).]
