Dr...I decided to put your post to the test. I checked on the FG percentage and Fg percentage of the first 1/4 of the NBA, alpahbetically up to the letter H. Now I didnt check every player either. Heres what I found.. -There were 20 players who had a higher FG and 3point percentage. -Of those 20 players, (remember I didnt even check every player) collectively they had a much higher FG percentage. There went you excuse that Walts low FG percentage was due to his "ability" to hit the 3. -There were also 10 players with very similar shooting percentages and 3 point percentages. -Of those 30 players only one with a higher 3 point percentage had a lesser Fg percentage than Walt. Further dismantaling of your Walt Excuse. So in Dr's language: Randomly clicking on about maybe 1/8 of the NBA. If your not even in the top 20 in shooting and 3 point percentage, your a sharpshooter in the NBA. Ummm. Virgin Suicide. Next time, before you try decide someone was punked. Try actually doing some research before claiming it. Because right now, your looking real dumb for opening your mouth. As for Bullard...I wouldnt claim him to be one of the best shooters in the NBA. Maybe one of the best spot shooters with an open look.
Dreamshake: Did you look at attempts? Who are these guys you're comparing Walt to? Are they scrubs, starters? You can't say a guy who shoots 40% on 10 attempts a better 3 pt. shooter than Walt. Compare him to some guys with "similar" talents and roles like Chuck Person, Glenn Rice, Chris Mullin, Reggie Miller, Jeff Hornacek, etc. If Walt totally pales in comparison, that would be a lot stronger argument. Also, remember that Walt made himself into a great 3 pt. shooter. He started out average. The season before last, Walt led the league in 3 pt. %. We all know he tore it up last year for a while. Career stats don't necessarily do him justice. Really, it's a pretty tough, almost irrational stance to try and prove that Walt is not a good perimeter shooter IMO. ------------------
Dreamshake: Why didn't you tell us the names of the players who had better 3pt shooting than Walt? Plus I hope you're looking at career 3pt% and (as Oakdogg said) looking at players who have a larger number of attempts. Also, I wasn't defending Walt's overall FG% because I think that's a tad low, but I think his 3pt% is good despite the fact that you said it was crap and below the NBA average. ------------------
All Players in the NBA who attempted more than 200 3 pointers (Walt attempted 261), had a 3 PT shooting %age over 37% (Walt's was 39.08%) and a FG% over 45.81% (which was Walt's shooting %age), and there are only 7 from what I can see : Brent Barry Vince Carter Allan Houston Dirk Nowitzki Cliff Robinson Rodney Rogers Steve Smith and... Walt Williams, of course. What sets Walt apart is his FG%. If we were to drop the FG% requirement from 45.81% to say, 44%, Walt would now be joined by 15 others. If you look just at FG%, 3 PT%, and temper those stats with 3 PT'ers Attempted, you'll see Walt is in an elite bunch. Oh, and of course this is just for the past season and not for career numbers. But if you look at Walt's 3 pt %age over his career, he's always been among the best. His FG% last year was his best since his entry into the NBA. Lastly... if you look at everyone that attempted more than 200 3 ptr's, last year, Walt's FG% would rank #10 out of 65 players. Shandon Anderson coincidentally would rank #3 on that list. --------- Just shut up and post [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited July 31, 2000).]
Dr. of Dunk..........do you have a doctorate in stats too? How is that database coming along? That would be pretty cool to be able to access online That's pretty weird that Shandon would be so high up. His shot is not nearly as pretty as Walt's. ------------------
Heres that list of players I looked up BJ Armstrong .477 .425 Ray Allen .441 .388 Dana Barros .463 .388 Brent Barry .440 .382 Greg Buckner .476 .385 Pete Chilcutt .441 .381 Dell Curry .441 .403 Micheal Dickerson .444 .418 Hubert Davis .462 .441 Dale Ellis .479 .403 Sean Elliot .466 .375 Jamie Feick .427 .400 Danny Ferry .447 .385 Pat Garrity .454 .400 Matt Harpring .451 .400 Hershey Hawkins .461 .395 Alan Houston .446 .405 Players with similar percentages Terell Brandon .449 .358 Timmy Hardaway .439 .354 Vinny DelNegro .422 .433 Lindsey Hunter .398 .370 Travis Best .442 .356 Mario Elie .476 .365 Shandon Anderson .483 .360 Michael Finley .454 .360 Nick Anderson .449 .360 WALT WILLIAMS .430 .373 And yes those are all CAREER percentages. Again thats just the list up to the letter H and maybe checking 60-70 percent of those players. [This message has been edited by Dreamshake (edited August 01, 2000).]
Dreamshake: Umm... this time, you got punked. Dr of Dunk is right... for regular players, Walt has an excellent 3pt percentage. It's really not fair to compare Walt to a scrub who only shoots 3's during garbage time. After you refuted DrNuegerberger's post I was impressed. Now I think you should just admit defeat . Oh, an yes... I remember Mario being an able 3pt shooter... yet your stats show he only shot .365 from behind the line. Perhaps your standards are a bit high? I agree with the logic of an earlier poster: as long as a 3pt shot is above about 33 percent, it's statistically advantageous. I think those stats may be too kind to Walt, but I think he's certainly an able roleplayer. Do you think it's coincidence that Walt's shooting spree coincided with the Rocket's winning streak? ------------------ [This message has been edited by haven (edited August 01, 2000).]
Did you not even look at the list of players there? Almost every one of them is a regular player. Those are their career marks, I didnt go past the letter H, AND I didnt check every player up to the letter H. And Walt barely makes the top twenty of that very small percentage of players. Keep the Walt excuses flowing though haven.
Dream, man. Give Walt a break, he maybe 1 of MANY great shooter in the league but who else do you think in this Rockets team is going to shoot like that. If your thinking Matt Bullard then honestly compare the rest of their games and you'll see why Walt is far better then Bull ummmmmmm who else? Dan Langhi may well be the answer but we don't know that. He might have a Kenny Thomas shooting season. To me every team needs a player who can just light up a team like that. We had Kenny Smith in 94/95, Mario Elie 95-97, Eddie Johnson 97-98. Now that reminds me, everyone loved Eddie huh? When he hit that trey to win game 4 against Utah. Now he was slow, poor defender, couldn't dribble very good but he was a good shooter and passer. You compare him to Wizard and Walt looks like an all-star, but you's still bash him. But I suppose that is just your opinion, just like how I bash Kenny now and then. ------------------ I'm tha hip hop attracta, rapper slash acta, right back at cha!
Career stats are far better indicators. Look at Walt's career. This past year was his HIGHEST FG% wise, and 3rd highest 3P% wise (one of those that were higher was last year in Portland, and the other was just .09% higher). From those respects, Walt had a "career" year. Now, if you're thinking that Walt's going to continue his last season "surge" (the same surge where he was the 4th leading scorer, average wise over the last 20 games), statistics sure don't point to it. In March and April, the season's last 2 months, Walt shot 49%, and 57.4% respectively. Over his career, this past year was the very first year he shot over 45%. The argument here is, that Walt doesn't provide nearly enough bang for the buck. He's gonna be around 5 million dollars. This is the same for many players, such as Shawn Kemp and also Glen Robinson. Kemp is still performing pretty well, with a 17.8-8.8 season this year, and a 20.5-9.2 the year before. But, no one wants him, because he's too much money, not enough performance (lazy, which stats don't show, same can be said for Walt, his defense is wretched), and just not needed or wanted. Addition by subtraction. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
man why you guys dissin walt. his career stats are misleading since he was buried on the bench in portland. The guy is maryland homeboys with francis and good friends with mobley. And keeping franchise and cat happy is the most important thing. Walt doesnt need to be a defensive stopper to help the rockets he needs to spot up and knock down the shot which he usually does. Hes also an underrated passer as i always see him tossin up the hoops to francis ------------------
Is Massenburg a Maryland homeboy too? Walt needs to play defense. The Rockets defense was AWFUL. We have too many people not playing defense (including Francis and Cat). The difference between Francis and Cat and Walt, is that Francis and Cat can get better. Walt has been consistently a poor defensive player. If you want him to spot up and shoot, then give Bullard and Langhi his minutes. They're both much better spot up shooters. He played 1 full year in Portland and 1 1/2 year, in that year, he had his highest 3P% in that full year. The Portland year and a half meant nothing to the numbers we were looking at. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
I think that thwe Wizard should not be traded because he has already, adjusted to the Rockets style of play and in his comfort. He will be a main contributor next year either as a starter or coming from the bench. Look for him to average 10/4/3 next season. ------------------ President of the Sir Charles Barkley Fan Club
Alrite everybody listen up To all of you who dont understand why i am such a hater of Walt Williams. Well i am going to give my reasons down below and when you finish readin, tell me that you are convinced just as much as I am that walt should be traded immediately. 1. Walt is much too overpaid for what he does. I am going to list below a list of things that Walt is good for: can shoot threes occasionally drive to the basket has decent dribbles what walt is not good for: cant play d can’t regularly beat people off the dribble he is inconsistent Ok now dont fall out of your seats when you hear wat i am about to say next. HE’S PAID 3,750,000. Do you believe that? thats ludicrous. I dont care how much anyone loves walt williams but hes definetly not worth that much. Open your eyes walt fans, hes the third most expensive or the second most expensive (if you omit the mobley situation). If walt is the 3rd most expensive on our team, then i believe he should be the third most important player on our squad. Well i can guarantee you this he’s not the third most important player on our team. Why do we pay shandon less money than we pay walt? answer that question walt fans and i will become a supporter of walt williams. i will take shandon over walt n e day and i know that every other nba team will also. All these reasons infuriate me and should infuriate all you rox fans out there also, which leads me to my second point. 2. Walt has been a failure throughour his nba career and i have evidence of this. If walt williams is so damn awesome why has he been on lord knows how many teams. I ask you walt fans why? I will tell you why, he has no work ethic in him. Steve francis is workin on his game in the offseason, mobley’s workin on his game, cato is workin and so is anderson WHERE IS WALT?, why havent we heard anything about walt workin in the offseason. HE DOESNT CARE, THATS WHY. while the players in the starting lineup are trying to work on their game, walt is mia. has it occurred to walt fans that he has absolutely no dedication. Walt was supposed to be an impact player when he came out of college, what happened to him? answer that walt fans. what happened to his game? wasnt he supposed to be the next magic? what happened to him? He got caught up in the hype when he came out of college that he was goin to be a great player and so he decided he did not have to work on his game. Thats wat happened to him. 3. Even before the revue started, i knew dan was going to be a fabulous addition to our team. He can not only do the things that walt can do but he can do much more than that. The only thing he need is pt and if walt is here dan is not going to get much. I want dan to start from the get go because the more he grows accustomed to the system, the better he will be. To those of you who think i am overreacting to what dan did during the revue. Tell me something, did dan not play against the likes of fizer, artest and players who were drafted ahead of him and were predicted to make an immediate impact on their teams? dan simply did not play them, he outplayed them. There is no doubt in my mind that he will be a starter this year and years to come. I hope rudy starts him this year. If we keep walt, dan will not get the minutes he needs to get in order to be a star. Ps If you are not convinced yet that walt should not be traded, you must be smokin. ------------------
psst. SwiftRocket: Walt is scheduled to make 4.85 million followed by 6.35 million in his last 2 seasons according to davo's info, not 3.75 million (what he made last year). http://rocketdavo.tripod.com/ ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Nike, I need to qualify those numbers. I estimated them based on total contract value, length of contract and a "ramping up" each year. I couldn't find a reliable listing of his actual annual salary. ------------------ Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
Nike: I don't agree that career numbers are the best indicators of how great a 3 pt. shooter a player is, esp. in the case of Walt. He's been in the league a long time. The three point shot is one area that players often show real improvement from work on it. There are lots of examples of this, and Walt is one of them. Compare Walt's percentage for his first three years in the league to his last five - there is a BIG difference. Walt has consistently been up around 40% the last five seasons, and it's a safe bet he will be next season too. That's a great three point shooter any way you cut it. [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited August 01, 2000).]
Good 3 point shooter, yes. I'm not sure he qualifies to me as a great shooter. When I think of the great modern shooters I think of the Millers, Rices, Hornaceks, and even a Brent Price. Walt's above average, but there are plenty of above average shooters. Our defense is just plain awful, and Walt contributes a large chunk to that, without helping big time in another area. He costs too much to be just a "spot up shooter who occasionally can handle the ball too". If we want a Maryland veteran, why not just sign TMass for the minimum, or at the most, the exception? ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Ok, so Walt MAY be overpaid and a perennial underachiever; but as we have seen he DOES shoot the ball well and he's always been good for at least 10ppg throughout his career. I'm not sure if it looked like I was trying to defend Walt and say "let's keep him!!" - that was not my intention, I think that Walt is useful and worth more than "a sack of balls" or a "paper clip" in trade value. Think of a team like San Antonio. They could probably use a Walt Williams. In fact I'd go so far as to say that would make them a pretty lethal threat - the question is, what could they give us in return?? I think we need to be careful what we would take for Walt. Either take a PF (heck toss in Bryce Drew and Kenny Thomas to get a good one...) - or trade him straight up for a defensive minded SF - but if we're going to trade him for a SF then it needs to be one with good size and one who isn't going to demand more than 20 miutes a night. ------------------
