You people who want to trade Nachbar before you have ever seen him play crack me up, just like all the Ming haters. But with Nachbar it is even more funny because here is a guy that almost no one has seen play, and was considered the best under 21 prospect in Europe, over Skitishvilli. And I will tell you something else too. The Rockets are not in the market for a small forward anymore. Rudy really likes Nachbar and he does not like Lewis and that is why he didn't draft him. He also does not like Odom, regardless of what Mobley wants, which is why Dawson didn't even make an offer with all of the trade bait he has and how powerfully LA wants to get rid of him. He's a white elephant. Yes, Lewis and Odom have talent. But they are the definition of prima donnas. Why would we want to take on high priced players when we need to think about Francis and Griffin and in three years Ming?
Cato..........he's got the potential to be one of the best players in the league. Sound familiar? Cato- 5 years: Slightly improved rebounding, everything else is mediocre at best. Odom- 3 years: While effective in several catagories, has shown no statistical improvement at all & has actually decreased in some catagories. He may be as good as he's going to get. Lewis- 4 years: His ppg, spg, apg, rpg have increased in each of his first 4 years in the league & he shoots 150 percentage points better than Odom at the free throw line & more that 100 percentage points better at the 3pt line. I vote for Lewis. Any questions!?!
I'm not sold on Odom or Shard. Yes, he has talent, but too much baggage. Shard also has talent and potential, but not worth the $$ he wants. I'm with LeGrouper, let's give Boki a chance and see if Glen can regain is touch. Unless someone has another name in mind (like maybe KG), then lets stand pat (for now).
i would take reshard if he wasn't so much trouble, but since he's a money hungry little kid. i would take neither of them and just worry about our guy's right now, like stevie, cat, griff, and ming in a couple of years.
Odom is better at Rebounding Creating Passing Defending Dribbling Penetrating Hitting Mid Range shots Dunking Smoking Weed Getting to the line nearly getting triple double when head to head Blocking Shots That being said, Lewis is damn efficient. Without drug problem and injury last year, I'd go Odom. Now..it woould be tough, but I still go with Odom..barely.
How can you guys be so high on nachbar, when he hasn't proven **** in this league. Just b/c he was picked high doesn't mean he gonna be a great player.
Lamar Odom. Did any of ya'll pay attention during his rookie season? Anyone notice what he can do with the ball? I'm sure you all did because it was a close running between him, Steve, and EB for Rookie of the year. He's a point forward with dribbling/passing skills who will immediately make it better for the shooters on the court: (cat, Griffin, and Ming) Not only that, but he can post-up AND rebound the ball very well. so WHAT if he likes to smoke chiba chiba... do you ACTUALLY think none of the rockets players don't smoke a lil bud in the offseason???
Cato never had that potential. We were hoping he'd develop into a Ratliff-type player, and I think most figured that to be his high end. I disagree on the statistical improvement of Odom-his assists have risen every year, while his turnovers have remained the same. His PT was inconsistent this year and you only have a 3 year sample size to really look at the number. Lewis started from much lower numbers. Odom lit the league up from day one. Lewis didn't. His PPG is rising, sure-at 16.8, that's 0.2 ppg higher than a ROOKIE Odom, and .4 LESS than a sophomore Odom. His assists are rising too? wonderful...1.7 is his career high, which is about 1/3 of Odom's CAREER average. Odom's career low in blocks is more than double Lewis' career high, and their steals' averages are roughly the same. Lewis is a better shooter than Odom, but that's about it. Still from the SF position, that may be exactly what we need. Even if we had the option of the two (which I doubt we do), it comes down to a lot of chemistry-you have Steve who'll have the ball alot, as well as Cat, then based on his reported passing ability, we'll be running through Ming as well-does adding Odom to that make us absolutely unstoppable, or is it too much? PS-As for Odom being as good as he's going to get....he's like 23. If he consistently averaged 17-8-6 for the next decade, there's a problem there?
Let it be known that I'm the person supporting Odom to Houston. Me, Sane, am the one rooting for Odom, and I'll make it very clear why. This response stuck out most and had most sense in it, so I'll proceed in explaining: "Injury prone. " Injury prone? That's a very loosely used term. He ahsn't had any serious injuries. If you watch him play, you can tell he's not the injury-prone type. He plains through any bull**** pain. You don't consider Steve Francis injury prone do you? Well Odom's injuries were just as simple. had they been in the playoffs, he wopuld've played last season. "Failed 5 NBA drug tests. " Needless to say, this is a formality. We all know a HUGE number of players in the league take drugs, and a significant number get caught. Our very own Mo Taylor has been caught twice or maybe more. "Cannot shoot a free throw." Absolutely true. I will talk more about this in the poor 3pt shooting part. "High turnovers" Considering he's been the PG basically for a team that has either been awful, or hasn't gelled till now, it's understandeable. It's important to mention he averages 5+ assists regularly. "Poor 3pt shooter. " Absolutely true again. I wouldn't go as far as saying poor, but not awful. But you tell me this. Do you put your money on Lewis becoming the distributor, slasher, post up threat that Odom is, or you put it on Odom becoming a better 3-pt shooter and FT shooter? I thought so. If in 2 years, Odom improves his shooting technique, and u throw in the 2 extra years of playing (maturity), that makes Odom AT LEAST average in everything. At this point, he will be considered in a tier ABOVE Lewis. Lewis' ceiling is too low. "No accomplishments." Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobely, Maurice Taylor, Elton Brand, Stephon Marbury, Derrick Coleman, Rip Hamilton, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, ANDRE MILLER......the list goes on and on. BTW, Odom's careeer averages are as good as, if not betetr than, Lewis' best year averages. "Loves handling the ball, often, which we don't need." Since when do we not need Steve to play more freely? Him and Cuttino both agree that Odom's skills fit our team perfectly. The pressue Steve and cuttino would take away from Odom would improve his FG% big time too, did you think about that? How good will Lewis be with no post presence liek Vin Baker yet on our team, and Steve Francis rather than Gary Payton? Now, a message to all those who are complaining about Boki. You think I don't like Boki? I'm thrilled to have him. But you give up talent for talent. In fact, I personally believe Boki will be better than Rashard Lewis himself. Boki can do anything Rashard can do, but it's highly unlikely that he will obtain the set of skills that Odom has. IMAGINE 2 triple double threats? With a PF who will probably get 2 or 3 in his career, and will come close a few more times (Griffin). Here's what I see: FG% and 3pt% will go up for Odom because he would be 3rd option or maybe even 4th on our team in terms of scoring. He'd handle the ball, but there won't be as many turnovers, because teams won't let Steve, Cuttino, or Ming open, and if they do, BOOM. We have a post up presence that has nowhere tog o but up, and he will demand less money than Lewis. I can't begin to explain how good this is: Ming Griffin Odom Mobley Francis Oh, btw, if you think Odom is a bad defender. Well, compared to Lewis, he's The Glove.
Hottodie, All your argument says is that Odom still has tons of room for improvement, while Lewis is approcahing his peak. How good a shooter will Lewis POSSIBLY become? Odom might start hitting .455 from the field, and .380 from 3pt range, but Lewis will never, I repeat, NEVER average 5+ assists a game and have Odom's creativity, desire, workrate, and team work.
BTW, if 3 pt shooting is what we need, it's not like we're lacking. We already have Ming and a steadily improving 3-pt shooter in Mobley. Add Griffin to that list. Then all we need is to sign a Walt Williams type of player to back up the 3. Please, before you enter this discussion, read my post on the previous page. We may have already discussed something you're talking about.
I said nothing about taking Lewis or wanting Lewis in that post. I simply stated that Odom is a poor fit for the Rockets, or any team that doesn't want a rehab clinic at the practice facility. I hope the Sonics and the Jazz get stomped in a big way next year, time for the Rockets to dominate them again. I LOVE that Lewis wants a pile of $$$, the Sonics will get saddled with numerous big contracts and they will be a BAD TEAM for years to come. Lewis is a very good player but let the sonics keep him if he is in the megabucks range. I like where we are at the moment.
superkev, Like I said, tons of players have been suspended for drugs, and tons of them do it without being caught. I like where we are right now too. But what logic is this? Since we're happy where we are, we shouldn't try to get better if we could? Odom has undeniable talent. Even you haven't denied it. Being suspended for drugs is nothing that can't be fixed. But you can't always give a player odom's talent.
All passing and no shooting? Since when did that happen to Steve and Cat? What about Mo Taylor? What about Ming who's going to take shots? We have plenty of scorers. Too many in fact. About the Drugs, first of all, I really doubt the number is 5. Second of all, it's a RANDOM drug test. If they decided to pick on Webber, I'm sure Webber would be in just as much ****. Same for Stoudamire, and same for Isaiah Rider. Despite this, it doesn't bother me. odom will never be thrown out of the league. Rider wasn't thrown out, he was cut because of selfsih play. If we remove maybes, ifs, what ifs, etc......Then Rashard Lewis is worth no more than a contract that pays him 6M in the final season, after 6 seasons. because lewis can only shoot the ball and rebound right now. That's the whole lot. While Odom can do tons more. I dont' understand how yo'er coming to the conclusion of not enough shooting. We have Francis, who's not a traditional PG, and that's about it. Our passing sucked last year more than anything. Looking at boxscores, I'd say we were out-assisted by teams 70 times or so last year. So passing is more important. Look at our roster, there's scoring everywhere. Ming, Griffin, odom, Mobley, Francis. All those guys can score, two of them can handle the ball. The whole Kings team handle the ball well, do you see a problem with them? The reason I'm comparing Boki is to simple show how highly I think of him for including him in this trade. Hack Odom? Like I said. It takes one offseason to become a decent FT shooter. Besides, at the end of games, we'll be going to Francis, Mobley and Griffin mostly. These little issues you have with Odom are things that can be fixed. But Lewis will never gain the talent Odom has.
Great -- let's get Odom. Hmmm, what do the Clips want in return? They're set w/players, if not w/their contract extensions, so -- how do we even start to get him? Or Lewis? It would take a two or three for two or three player deal to land him, so -- how? Maybe '5' starved / 2/3 rich Portland takes Cato for Bonzi and Randolph, then Bonzi and Randolph and KT for Lewis and a contract to make it work? So, Lewis essemtailly for Cato and KT? Maybe. Then, what about Rice, and his contract? Can't see someone assuming that one and giving us a 2nd round pick... Sorry -- give me Stevie's extention, a Malik Rose/Artest-esque player, I'm happy -- and let's roll out the ball and go to the playoffs!
do i have to take one? while i would rather pass on both of them as is (entering final year of contract & some "baggage"/asking for the moon), tho i would take either for the MCE this year or next. I think if push came to shove tho, i would take odom. I like multi-talented players more than players with limited/lessor positions/talents. I'll also say I haven't seen either play in the flesh, so i'm just going by what i've read/gossip.
ummm.... i dont think this trade would realistically materialize...u think if houston got rashard (whom by the way home town is form houston and maybe the only reason the rockets are in negotiations to get him to begin with) that they would trade him away? man we passed him up 3 times if we get him we going to keep him end of discussion...
