Who would you be happy getting in return for Francis?

Cause he's an 18 year old big man. If we could get Billups, Darko, Sura, Campbell for Steve, Cato and a 1st, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Gamble, but pretty decent odds, with huge, HUGE potential payoff. Staying with Steve is also a gamble, and the payoff's not as big.

 

With an eye to the draft, I would also strongly consider these:


1) SF, Mobley, Mo Taylor, Boki to Atlanta for Diaw, SAR, Terry, Mohammed and their 1st.

2) SF to Washington for their 1st, Kwame, Knight and Hayes.

 

I think we are better of seeing how this season turns out.


If the Rockets end up being a good playoff team I think you'll find alot of their problems dont become to big of an issue.

Also you need to see what happens in this next off season. If Wallace, Bryant and the like are changing teams then not only will we find oppositions sides having different needs and wants.....but we might find the Rockets have alot less competition in the Western conference and we have enough ammo to get into the later rounds of the playoffs.

Thats what I think anyway.


I tell you who the Rockets could use. Ben Wallace. I think if we got ourselves a tough rebounder and defender at Power Forward (WE dont need another scoring option) then we'd have a horrible teams to face off against.

 

Francis + JanetJackson + Juugie for Andre Miller

 

no trades till after the season. if we make 6th seed, give it a chance.

 

Looks like JVG has his "happy getting in return for Francis" vote in...

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72642

Turncoat.

 

Capologiosts?

Could SAR & Terry (if he agreed to it, which I am sure he would) be traded for SF, MT, Boki + future consideration before this year's deadline using our trade exemption to get around BYC issues?

Here is why I like the deal:

Atlanta is a terrible team, but Terry and SAR are not terrible players, they simply are not borderline superstars capable of carrying a quality team (repeated over and over in SAR's case). However in Houston they only have to be complimentary players around Yao. Terry is kind of a Francise light in skills, but is more of a team/coachable guy and probably a better pure shooter when left open. Anyone seens what SAR has done against WC front lines the last week or so, he more than held is own in points, rbs and effieciency to put it mildly.

In Francis, Atl gets a high profile, multi-NBA all-star who they can turn loose for 22-7-6 production and bring some excitement to a lifeless franchise. MoT also presents some problems for EC defenses and will be an OK starter, Boki and pick give them some younger potential.

I like the deal for both teams.

 

Use the trade exception and Francis to get Elton Brand from the Clippers- though they will not want a max contract. This won't work. Forget about a equitable trade -Francis is dead meat with diminishing value courtesy of Van Gundy going to the media and dogging him NY style. We have no choice but to trade Francis in a fire sale now- or keep Francis - Van Gundy will make him so miserable that Steve will demand a trade later.

Trade some of our garbage like Piatowski and the trade exception for Marko Jaric, or pick up Troy Hudson - he just signed a 10 day contract and could be had cheap. Try to get Damon Jones or the like and try to get a big power forward to compliment Yao. We will be a strong front court team again.

How did things get so screwed up?? We are in a panic mode-every rat for himself.

 

DS -
The "capologist" in me will tell you that the trade works before the trade deadline if you exclude Nachbar. There would be an inconsequential ~$500k of the TE remaining.

However, the "realist" in me will tell you it won't happen before the deadline.

 

I think I'd do Steve and either Mo or Cato for Bobby Jackson and Chris Webber.

I love Bobby Jackson. Great mits. Great player. Underrated.

 

GATER- Are you sure? You may be forgetting that Jason Terry is BYC as well. We can get around the BYC issues surrounding Steve for our part with the TE, but I'm fairly sure Steve+MoT+Boki is greater than 115%+100K of SAR and (1/2 of) Terry. The Hawks would have to add some more salary...without looking at exact figures, it's hard to say how doable it would be, if at all.

Me personally? I'd probably be all over Francis for Hinrich+Chandler+Robinson.

 

Okay, here are the players I would definitely trade Francis 1-1 (plus cap fillers) for:

Garnett
Dirk
Duncan
T-Mac

None of those trades mentioned above are likely to happen.

Players I would consider trading Francis for if the package was right and only if the situation required it - in other words, if it became very clear that Francis with Yao/JVG is not going to work out, and this all depends on Francis (cap fillers from either side to be thrown in):

Kirilenko + decent PG (perhaps Arroyo)
Peja+decent PG (Jackson)
Brand + Jaric
Pierce
Nash + something (Nash alone would not be enough)
Allen + Ridnour
Andre Miller + Nene
Kidd

That's a pretty short list!!!!

I wouldn't want Kobe (don't like him) or guys like Cassell (too old).

I know I have been very critical of Francis' recent behaviour, but I actually agree with whoever said that he is almost as good as T-Mac (but much shorter and makes a bit worse decisions).

I would NOT trade him for lesser talent, because I think he is a good guy, despite his recent lies which I am willing to book under immaturity.

Actually, I still hope it all works out and our current guys will gel and Francis and Yao will build the next NBA dynasty .

Hey, I can dream, can't I .

 

Dreaming is exactly what you are doing if you think we could get players like Pierce and Kidd for Francis. Even more so when you not only want to get guys like Ray Allen, Brand, or Peja, but you want the OTHER team to add talent to the deal. Peja is getting MVP consideration and is the Best player on the team with the best record in the NBA. Francis is scoring 16 points on <40% shooting. A good assumption when thinking of trades is that the GMs of other teams are neither on the rockets payroll, nor on crack.

 

First of all, Kidd is like 5 or 6 years older than Francis, I believe, and has been traded numerous times for players who are arguably less talented than he is.

Pierce has not exactly been carrying his team to a winning record, like Francis did a few years ago with the Rockets in the Western Conference.

Allen got traded for an old Payton, who surely had less trade value than Francis at the time.

Don't know where you picked up that Peja is getting MVP consideration. Garnett will be MVP, no doubt about it at all.

From what I know, you very much prefer Mobley to Francis, but don't underestimate his reputation in the league as a very good player.

I am not saying these trades are all likely to be accepted by either side - all I am doing is answering fadeaway's question - who would YOU be happy getting in return for Francis, and my honest answer is that I think that highly of Francis' skills as a player that I would warn not to give him away too cheaply just because of some incidents which might be forgotten soon.

Just because some of our own fans hate or really dislike Francis does not need to mean that all GMs in the league look at it the same way.

 

Kidd is 4 years older than Francis. He was traded away from Dallas because of an odd situation involving him and Jim Jackson, and Toni Braxton. Dallas still got Sam Cassell and Michael Finley for him, who are better than Francis combined. Phoenix traded him for Marbury, who is better than Francis and is the same age as Francis, and yet people still thought it was a good trade for New Jersey and a bad trade for Phoenix.

Pierce led his team to the playoffs the last couple years, which Francis has never done. This year the Celtics have traded away every player that was worth anything to get Ricky Davis and Raef LeFrentz, so they are struggling, not surprisingly.

Milwaukee was dumping salary (they also traded Glen Robinson for Toni Kukoc and Sam Cassell for Joe Smith and Anthony Peeler, who they cut). They had Cassell at the time, so it wasn't like they needed a new point guard.

I picked it up on ESPN.com from one of the columnists and from ATH and PTI on ESPN. All have metioned Peja in connection with MVP talk. He will certainly not win, but I would not be surprised if he gets a couple of votes. Steve Francis will get 0 MVP votes.

I have no doubt that he is seen as a good player. I do not think that he is seen as a player at the same level as Pierce, and is certainly not seen as a player ABOVE the level of Peja. Peja is closer to Dirk than he is to Francis, he is scoring at a higher average and at a higher percentage than Francis ever has, and is a superior defender and rebounder. I would trade Francis, Cato, and a first round pick for Peja, and I am still unsure if the Kings would go for it.

Likewise, just because some of our own fans fawn all over Steve and can't get over his 20-6-6 or his flashy dunks, doen not need to mean that all GMs in the league look at it the same way.

If the Rockets get Peja and Bobby Jackson for Francis, I will donate $1000 to the tip jar.

 

You know it will never happen :

 

Originally posted by StupidMoniker
If the Rockets get Peja and Bobby Jackson for Francis, I will donate $1000 to the tip jar.

This is the place for 'it will never happen', but if it did...thou? Everyone in?

BTW -- anyone who thinks SF is shoot first, wait til you see BJax every night (but only if you move to Sactown...or get Lague Pass).

 

NIKE -
Yes, Terry is also a BYC player. Thanks for the gentle reminder.

I tried multiple scenarios and it all eventually came down to unrealstic things like ATL throwing in Nazr Mohammed or the Rox sending Spoon somewhere for a draft pick. Considering I really don't want SAR on the Rox (noting his Q4 scoring troubles last night vs Taylor and Spoon among other reasons), I have probably spent waaaaaaayyy to much time on this! Obviously, a 3rd party team makes this much easier but I'd like to see the Rox wait until the summer to make personnel moves. Both Francis and Terry lose their BYC then.

 

your just trying to avoid the facts. I hate the excuse of steve did not lead us to the playoffs. Francis solely lead the team to winning records, and Peirce with Walker barley made it in the east. DO you seriously think if peirce replaced francis the rockets would of made the playoffs. The same goes with Mcgrady. Francis moving to the east, spells devistation.

 

Oh the irony...