ok so you want arguments? i wil give it to you. lets look at there skills. Height --> yao Speed--> Hakeem Drive --> Hakeem Shot --> even Block --> hakeem steals --> hakeem post moves --> Hakeem Strenght --> Hakeem Agression --> Hakeem overal defens --> Hakeem so why do you think Yao can win? Because he can drive so very good? because you said that is the reason robinson can win of Hakeem because he has such a good drive. Well Yao has a terrible drive. Alot worse then the Bad driving hakeem Hakeem was unstopable 1 on1. Yao can be stopped 1 on 1. i also think Yao is good, but not nearly as good as hakeem was. i also think it is unfair to compair a second year Yao to a prime hakeem. Yao has potential to become very good. but we wil have to see how good. is this good enough arguments for you i would like to hear soe arguments from you why Yao can win. as for robinson hakeem also showed he can't be stopped 1 on 1. and he is probably the best defensive player ever to play the game, so if anybody can stop robinson it is Hakeem. if hakeem gets the ball down low it is over for robinson. hakeem can fake him out of his shoes. i would also like to hear your awnser to my question why you think yao can beat Hakeem because he dominated a 40 years old Ewing. and if you really believe Yao is better then Garnett?
6 or 7 out of 10 games from Hakeem sounds about right out of 10. I was arguing with guys who think they Yao have absolutely no shot with Hakeem because Hakeem is just too fast (ie Yao gettin slaughtered 15-0) I've never said Yao will beat Hakeem 1 on 1. All I've said was Yao CAN beat and hang with Hakeem if they play 1 on 1. Big difference.
I'vve countered your points with all sorts of evidence...statistical, video clips, in depth analysis of their strengths & Hakeems weaknesses. You, meanwhile, have not offered a solitary shred of evidence other than your opinion, which isn't based on any evidence, other than some bizarre extrapolation about Amare Stoudemire and Eddie Griffin. Go back and read some of the posts man.
I said what? Garnett? Huh? Quit putting words in my mouth like always. You don't think Yao can use his big bootie to spin around to score and shoot over Hakeem? Don't get me wrong, he will have a very hard time too scoring over hakeem consistently. Same goes for Hakeem might having a hard time scoring over Yao consistenly because of his length and agility for his size. That's all I'm trying to say here. As long as people here agree that Yao have a shot and can kind of hang with Hakeem 1 on 1, I'll be happy with that.
I love how so many people have selective memories or, to be "fair" to them, no memories of Olajuwon in his 2nd year. I posted this already, and people keep bringing up Ewing in practice (hell, if he could still play at 70-80% of what he was in his prime, he'd beat the hell out of anyone backing up Yao... let's activate him! sure... I don't buy this at all), they bring up Eaton and Smits and Shaq and make some kind of excuse or justification to "show" how Yao would be different... in Yao's favor. But as I started to say, I've posted this already... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who shouldn't need any introduction as to his ability, compared to anyone, was taken by Olajuwon, in his 2nd year, for 40, 35, and 30 points during the last 3 games of our 5-1 tromping of the Showtime Lakers in the '86 Western Conference Finals, when it mattered most and when Pat Riley had his great team's focus on containing Akeem. I think we're seeing some selective reading by many of you. It's not about whether an Hakeem in his prime could beat the Yao of today 1 on 1... he couldn't beat a second year Olajuwon 1 on 1. And Kareem was still playing at an All-NBA level, averaging the same number of points per game as Hakeem, had won a championship the year before, and would win the next 2 in a row the 2 seasons after '86. Kareem wasn't a short guy. Folks, Yao is a unigue talent, as I said before, and we don't know how great he'll be, although most of us have high expectations, but, excuse me, I think some of you are very far afield here and borderline crazy. I wish someone could ask Yao. I think he would agree with my assessment.
I'll go a step further Chen, just to piss you off. Hakeem would and could beat <b>any </b> big man even of today (in their prime) 1 on 1. This includes KG, Shaq, Yao, CWebb, Duncan etc besides DRob, Ewing etc. 1 on 1, w/ no one else on the floor, Dream would kill either of those guys. KG would be the only one Dream would not beat 7-10 times. Agin, Chen, just so you know, <b> I am talking about 1 on 1, <b>, a game to 21, make it take it, take back on everything.........street ball style! Hakeem's game is made for this sh**.
You mean Hakeem have weaknesses???? GET OUT! Please reread again as to why the Amare topic popped up. Lets revisit the DRob vs Olajuwon 1 on 1 topic again. I've got to say it 10 times to get it through to your head. Consider the following facts that I mentioned that you have not considered: 1. Statistically their numbers are pretty much identical when they play head to head overall (don't just look at the WC finals). The Mermaid's team actually dominated Hakeem's team over the 10+ years span. 2. David Robinson's game is more molded to play 1 on 1 because he's 1. A great shooter, even better than Hakeem; and 2. He can drive and finish the basket with the best of them. His quickness is just unbelievable for his size. IMO, these two characteristics are mostly needed when playing 1 on 1 and he has the distinct edge on both categories. 3. The way Hakeem can score on Robinson most consistently is by posting up and doing his spins and fakes and NOT by driving. Admit it! <b>When Hakeem post 1 on 1, the ball is already on the floor because he had to dribble to that position. When he tries to do his moves he won't be nearly as effective because the dribble is alive already. </b> It's something little to you guys, but this gives Hakeem a tremendous disadvantage when posting up and trying to do his classic moves. He won't be able to make most of the moves you saw through the years because he's dribbling already. That's why I always say that this is 1 on 1 and that he's got to dribble himself to that position and that dribble is alive prior to your post up move. Barkley is great at this if you guys recall.
These are the kind of responses I do not normally read. Because of this, I probably overlooked some rational logical posts here and I apologize for that. No reasoning, just pure emotion. (And for the record Shaq will probably slaughter Yao and Hakeem if they play 1 on 1)
I never said that shot blocking was all defence is about. it is just that it is realy yaos only strength on defence. you said that he is a little bit less of a defensive player than eaton. when clearly eaton was so much better at shot blocking than yao it would be r****ded to even think of comparing them.
Chen, do you not see why your arguments are inconsistent? First you argue that Olajuwon can't drive on Robinson (which is not true, but I digress) because Olajuwon isn't fast enough and becase he won't be able to get the ball in the post. Then you argue that O'Neal and Yao would be able to post up olajuwon because of their size and strength, or that Olajuwon wouldn't be able to post them up becuase of their size and strength. (neither of which is true, again). Even if you're right, both these statements can't be true. If Olajuwon, the quickest, fastest big man in the history of the game, can't get the ball into the post vs. Robinson, no way on earth that the plodding Ming and O'Neal, who have but a fraction of Olajuwons speed, quickness, and handles, could get the ball into the post vs. Olajuwon. You want to have it both ways. You can't.
oops. my mistake, i misread one of your post, sorry, you didn'say Yao was better then Garnett But I would like to hear your awnser to my other questions, why do you think Yao would stand a chance? you said that in 1 on 1 the drive is most importent, but then you say that Yao and Shaq can beat Hakeem, though hakeem is a far superior driver then those two, so what is it, is driving to the basket the most importend in 1 on1 games? if that is the case Hakeem would beat those two easily. So again why do you think yao can beat hakeem in a 1 on 1 game? Only because he is tall? or because of some other qualities you haven't mentioned? Like I said I think yao is a very good player, but just not compaired to Hakeem. Hakeem was the best defensive player ever. and he is a MVP. and he has been MVP of the finals twice. So why would Yao stand a chance
First I thought it's a joke when I saw the thread title, but it got 100+ response, so I guess it's not I know many of you want Yao to do well, same here! But guys, let's be realistic. You have to watch Hakeem at his prime to see how far Yao is behind. Hakeem was regarded as THE best offensive center ever by many during his prime. Yao is having trouble to guard some of today's centers in the game this season.
At first I gave <b>detailed </b> arguements, explaining <b>exactly </b> why and how, in a <b>1 on 1 </b> game, Hakeem would beat down DRob. Not only that, I even went on to say that I have all the playoff games from 95 on DVD for proof. I even expalined all the moves that Hakeem pulled on David, besides <b>post ups</b>, which apparantly, are not allowed in a 1 on 1 game ......I specifically went on to say that Hakeem <b> can </b> do plenty other things besides that, which in a <b> 1 on 1 game </b> will beat you. My name is <b> heyDude </b>.......read my posts in the last 10 pages, and then see your own responses to those, <b> Chen </b>.........who is 'irrational'.......who is 'reasonal'.......and who is plain and simply trolling..........
Some people keep comparing Hakeem to Garnett in their primes because of ¨ëxplosiveness to the basket.¨ If I am not mistaken, Hakem was more of ¨low-post, back-to-the-basket player in his prime (´93-´95)?¨ Sure the younger Hakeem was ¨explosive to the basket¨ but but the Hakeem in his prime was far different than the Garnett today. Or am Ijust missing something?
I see what you're trying to do here. It feels like I'm talking to a lawyer. OK here we go: Hakeem can't drive on Robinson consistently, like the way Robinson can beat Hakeem to the hole. Please just for the love of god recognize that that's just not his game. Hakeem just doesn't have that type of game you've got to admit. Hakeem CAN get the ball in the post, but he won't be in position to do his classic spinmoves because he is dribbling already before his post up move (Please reread my post again). Hakeem is not known for posting up as he was dribbling like Chucky. Again, Hakeem won't be able to post them up AS EFFECTIVELY because his dribble is active prior to his post move. Therefore he cannot do his classic hakeem spins and post up moves as well. Agree? It makes it even worst when you have to shoot over Yao's size. (As mentioned with his issues posting up really tall guys like Eaton or Bradley). Don't get me wrong, Yao will have issues trying to post up Hakeem himself because of Hakeem's quickness and strength but I think he can manage to hang in there with his jump hooks, and baseline fadaways, and simply shooting over Hakeem. Shaq poses different issues and is a whole 'nother story. I don't want to drift too far away from the debate at hand. That's true Hakeem IS the quickest and fastest big man in the game. He's one of the greatest of all time. Again, he CAN get the ball in the post versus Robinson, Shaq, Yao, or whomever. When you play 1 on 1, it is required that you post while dribbling with the ball. When he's dribbling already, he is NOT nearly as effective posting up (I've said the same thing 3 times here but I've got to drill it in your heads).
I am neither an HOF nor YOF so perhaps I should put down my 2 cents. Many of you are comparing Hakeem in his prime vs Yao in his second year. Hakeem in his second year is better than Yao right now, but not by that much. Hakeem is one of the best of all time but I would not rank him ahead of Shaq, who has more rings and played against better competition and tougher rules vs him. (Sorry, some one else brought him in earlier) I did watch NBA games and remember the early 80's when Hakeem was still Akeem. And way before the refs stop calling travelling on his yet-to-be-developed shake and bake moves. He was great, but not yet the great center at his prime. He had many skills but outside shooting was not one of them. He was foul prone and turn-over prone. He was already the best shot-blocker at that time though. Jabar was over the hill and I also remember the 4-2 series, with a more neutral perspective. Yes, Hakeem dominated David Robinson in set half court games. Partly because Rudy was a better coach than Popovic then. When the Spurs were able to play the running game, David Robinson out-played Hakeem. How many of you remember DR leading the fast break and leaving Hakeem in the dust? Hakeem was quick. David Robinson was fast. The game has changed a great deal since then. Centers and pf's are taller, bigger and stronger than before. Duncan and perhaps Garnett would play center a generation ago. I remember the time when 6'10 skinny center were the norm. (Try that on the western conference today and see how far he can carry the team!) Before the zone-related rule changes, you cannot double team a man without the ball. This really hurts the big center's game and Yao's game in particular. The game scores were higher in the 80's and defense much weaker than now. Yao Ming's problem is not his skill set but his stamina(and his upper body strength). In a half court game, that's a lesser problem. He is already more skilled than all but 2 big men today(TD, KG). Yao Ming has a brief career in the NBA and his best years are still ahead of him. His offensive skills are already unstoppable 1-on-1. His turnovers largely due to missed calls and fatigue. I give a lot of credit to Hakeem, playing great at center in a small/power forward frame. Which is why he can "out-quick" his man in the low post. In today's game, he will not have the bulk to play at that level. (Which is why KG is playing small/forward and TD plays PF.) Hakeem only played 68 games in his second year. Yao Ming plays center in a center's body which has not reached the physical limit. When, not if, his body matures in 2-3 year, double teams will not work and his numbers will go up again. It does not make sense for him to add weight but he should definitely improve his conditioning. In short, Hakeem at his prime is much better than the current Yao Ming. In 3 years, barring a major injury, Yao Ming will have closed the gap signigicantly. In 5 years? The sky is the limit. I am also confident that Yao Ming will win more than 2 rings in his career. However, JVG is not the head coach that will make it happen. Is Pat Reily available? Check back in 3 year and we shall see.
The two issues here: 1. Dream of his prime vs. Yao now? That's not even a joke. You are comparing a guy who destroyed D-Rob and Ewing in their prime and an up-and-coming Shaq vs a guy who has troubles against Adonal Foyle??? Get your act together! (Oh, and the guy who said Dream had problems with Rick Smits? What the f*** are you talking about? ) 2. Dream of his prime vs. Yao of his prime? That's a ridiculous comparison. Remember when Olowakandi got drafted as the #1 pick in 1998 and people were saying he has the potential to be the next Olajuwon? Remember how Kwame Brown was supposed to redefine the big man? There is at least one "potential Olajuwon" in every drfat. Who the hell knows how Yao will develop and what he will be able to do. People were saying that Nowtski in his prime will be better than Larry Bird. Whatever.
Good questions. Just to get another thing clear. I also think brute power and knowing how to use your size and strength can override finesse in Shaq's special case if they happen to play 1 on 1. When you are strong and have great handles like Shaq, you can bully and back down, spin using your raw power back and forth to easily get layups and wear down Hakeem, Yao, David, or whomever in the way. I've drawn out how Yao can distrupt and slow down Hakeem using his size and strength defensively which seems reasonable to you I hope. That ability will automatically keep him in a 1 on 1 game IF he can do that consistently, agree? (We an only speculate because they'll never play each other). Offensively, Yao might be able to back Hakeem down with his spin back and forth as he uses his big lower base while dribbling. He does that a lot and very effectively in the games but gets stripped a lot by other guys. Notice that he's always been stripped trying to put the ball on the floor by other smaller guys and not the guy who's reallly holding him. It is NOT easy to steal if you have a 7-5 guy backing you down and spinning. His dribbling combined with his lower base stregth and of course his shooting touch is adequate enough to hang with Hakeem. Remember he can shoot over Hakeem anytime he wants and can fade both ways (while Hakeem only fades to his left while posting up). The question is how far deep can he dribble down Hakeem to the low blocks.
