Durant not ever making it out of the second round without Westbrook is a strange and wild conjecture. Not sure how anyone could KNOW that but sure w/e. I'm sure playing with Westbrook in OKC had some positives and negatives for Durant. How much it help him is debatable. Not sure what is being understated. Durant was already avg 25ppg at 20 and 30 points per game by age 21. Durant joining Curry/Warriors undoubtably improved his playoff efficiency, which is what i pointed out explicitly in my post... in the 2nd paragraph. Not sure what your issue here is... Don;t know what you mean by "scalability" and why it is overated. Dominating the ball limits the abilities and roles of other players on the team. The amount of time with the ball is finite. There is approximately only 18 minutes of ball time possible for a 36 min per game player. Having a single player control over half of that limits the oppurtunities for other players. Chris paul while a very good player in 17-19 was a far cry from his prime CP3... same with Westbrook in 2020. Both were not only older and lesser version of themselves, they also had to change their games to fit Harden. Westbrook's best ability - running and attacking the pick and roll - was decreased by 50% while his time on ball was also reduced. CP3 also faced the same adjustment. Prime CP3 or Westbrook with Harden would need even larger adjustment in order for him to play "harden-ball."
Westbrook was an all NBA player and absolutely helped him. There could have been better players next to him for sure, but Westbrook was no doubt a great player for them and helped Durant. Sure, but his real playoff success didnt come until he joined the Warriors. You said that he was their best playoff performer....I mean, I disagree because they guy that allowed him to go off was the dude who was taking the brunt of the defensive attention. Curry was their best player and thus better playoff performer simply because of what he did to defenses. His impact stats during the playoffs doesnt really change that much either. The argument about "fit" is a weird one too. We saw what a team built around Durant looked like and a team built around Curry is better. Or even looking at it, what exactly is a team built around Durant if he's so versatile to begin with? Does it matter? The point is really thought that Durant isnt warping defenses like Curry is and that includes the playoffs. Its basically versatility, dont worry about it. Yea but that's due to age and not due to him having the ball less or time of possession. Age was way more of a factor. Chris Paul and Westbrook werent lesser versions of themselves "because" they had to play with Harden. Westbrook's ability to run the pick and roll sucks to begin with tbh. All you have to do is go under the pick and let him shoot and its done. Chris Paul was fine in 2017-2018. What happend was that he declined the next year and he was not himself(also injured). He was simply playing better the next year. That's all it was. "Harden ball" is basically my turn, your turn, with the better players getting more touches. That is what happens when you are the second option, hell maybe prime Cp3 would get the ball more, it was all based off efficiency with us.
Durant led OKC to the NBA finals! To say he didn't have any real playoff success until the Warriors is ridiculous. He had a TS% 63% PER 27.5 and avg 28.5 ppg 7.4 rbs in 20 postseason games that year. Like i said in my original post. Some believe Durant, others Curry to be the best player on those Warriors teams. Its w/e IMO. I've stated I thought Curry was better but i'm fine with either position, so you don't need to convince me lol. As for the issue of fit/optimization... I brought that up to possibly explain why Durants impact numbers in GS were much worst than Curry. That was Curry's team, the pieces and system built to match his strengths. I'm guessing 2016 Curry joining that 2016 WB/Durant/Ibaka OKC team would've had similar results except in Durant's favor. But maybe not... who knows. (that team woulda killed tho lol) Yes, CP3 and Westbrook werent lesser because they had to play with Harden. Yet they still had to adapt and limit their games to fit Hardens. Imagine how prime Cp3 and prime Westbrook would fit. Both those guys needed the ball much more than their aged version of themselves in Houston. Harden ball is basically what Luka, Trae, Harden and prime westbrook are playing. Its one player controlling half of every offensive possession they are on the floor. That kind of system isn't going to work seamlessly with different types of players. Imagine Harden joining the Mavs or Luka with prime Westbrook or Trae with Harden or 2016 WB with Harden. The fit will require one or both to have less time on ball and most likely a decline in output. If you study their stats, both WB and Harden's offensive output increase directly in relation to their control of the ball. For WB it was due to durant leaving. For Harden it was the hiring of dantoni. Similarly Trae and Luka are putting up impressive stats since coming into the league due not only to their skills/talent but due to the unprecented amount they dominate the ball. Since having the ball more equals having more oppurtunities to score or assist more.
I probably wouldn't take him over Bird at this time, but it's really damn close. Finish out this year the way he is going right now and give me another healthy year next and I don't think it's a question. Basically, Durant did 3 years in Golden State where he played on a team with 3 or 4 HOF and he was the best guy on multiple title winners in that window- just like Larry Bird was. Same same. The differentiator will just be KD being greater for longer than Bird. He hasn't gotten there yet but he will with 2 more solid years. I'm talking volume, not rate stats.
I took a flier and voted Kyrie. He's not by any means the best scorer (he's the worst of the three) but I could see him being the one who needs/wants to be the main scorer the most- that mattering to him- so it ending up being him. I'm probably overthinking this and it will end up being what you'd expect: KD, Harden, Kyrie in that order.
He was also playing with Russel Westbrook and James Harden. What he did was great and no one can take that away from him, but he also had help. I guess i misspoke when I said "real" playoff sucess but....Im trying to illustrate the difference between OKC Durant and GS Durant. Its huge. Im not, I just think its pretty evident. I dont see the argument for Durant. Their impact numbers should not have that much of a dwarf, no matter the "fit." If Durant is so versatile than what was the problem there? The fact is he doesnt warp defenses like that. Curry does. Its not really close. I dont even know what team built around Durant looks like. He's still playing with Draymond and Klay even without Curry, its not like those guys dont fit him, they do. That's more than enough. The "fit" argument is....well I dont understand it, especially for a player like Durant. Uhh well...would Curry joining OKC be better than the KD Warriors?...the answer to that imo is a resounding no. If 2015-2016 Curry joined the OKC offense....I mean, unless you totally misuse Curry than I dont see how Durant could be more impactful. It would fine been fine though, Harden has no problem deferring to win. If they needed the ball more, they would get the ball more simply because they were better players who were deserving of it. How much his stats take a hit, I dont know, because there would only be one of them(in terms of star players added). I dont see a reason why both can't keep their stats though. You can stagger, take turns. It dosent have to be a tremendous sacrifice in out put. With 3 star players its different. But with 2, its fine. Westbrook was eating when he wasnt....well garbage. Westbrook was actually better with Harden on the floor. The drop would probably be apparent, but I dont see that large of one if...Im not being to obtuse here? Uhh hmmm yea its true. Their output could very well drop. But I think raw output really understates how much putting two dominant offensive forces together works out. Like as long as your a floor spacer, its really not difficult to provide off ball value. Maybe their individual outputs gets diminished(to what degree we wouldnt know) but as long as the offense is blistering, I dont see the problem.
Maybe? I dont know if he's gonna keep shooting at 65 TS% but thats really relative to your era. As far as the whole KD, Harden Kyrie things go....Durant might lead them in scoring but as far as being their best offensive player....that might be Harden. Though Harden has been really trash on defense this season, he needs to improve. He can be a positive defender when he wants to be.
[ Sure, if he has the ball that much it's strongly correlated with Harden leading the league in scoring 35+ again and is 2nd or 3rd assists and is en route to having his 3rd MVP stolen out of the last 5 years. Could still happen!
