Who will Harden finish second in MVP voting this year to?

very well put breh. but because i saw your name first, i read it in a screaming voice with every other word emphasized.

 

Nash is one of the most disrespected players ever

 

Our boy just moved into first on the bbref MVP tracker

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

 

While MVP is certainly narrative based....

It's not like Giannis isn't also deserving. He legitimately WAS amazing last year, and is even better this year so far. As is Harden. Giannis is currently putting up 30/14 on 33 mpg - my understanding is no one has ever put up those stats on less than 35 mpg. Better efficiency than Harden, leads the league in WS/48, has a league leading 94 DRtg, leads the league in BPM and VORP and PER. And for this mornings Points/100 push... absolutely Harden's numbers are INSANE... but Giannis is also currently 20th all time.

Don't get me wrong... I'm a Houston and Harden fan, and from a narrative perspective don't see how Giannis should win back to back, if both he and Harden improved, and Harden does so to the extent he puts up 38+ ppg a night. The object of the game is scoring, and Harden puts up 7 more points per 100 than Giannis on also great efficiency. It's hard to figure how much Giannis' defense "saves" points relative to Harden's... I personally think it's harder to impact defensive scoring individually than it is offense... but if someone wanted to argue Giannis was 7 points better per 100 possessions defensively with Harden... well it would at least be a solid argument.

If Harden finishes behind Luka - similar game, Luka not quite the full Harden impact yet, or even worse AD, who is at best 1b in LA... now that'd be ****ed up.

Personally, I have it right now as:
1. Harden
2. Giannis
3. Luka
4. Lebron
5. Siakim - probably bias, but I REALLY like Siakim.
6. KAT - dropping, but they are still 8-6 and in the playoff race

I personally have a big problem with voting 2 players on the same team. I'm not going to vote Lebron and AD in the top 10, most likely. Cause there are other great players on great teams and I don't see how I could vote player 2 on a team ahead of player 1 on an also very good squad just when that player doesn't have the benefit of playing with a teammate as good as the other player. In other words... do I think AD is better than KAT? Absolutely. But at least at this point, the Lakers are only 3 games ahead of the TWolves and KAT is player 1 on the Wolves and AD is player 2 on the Lakers, imo. Switch AD and KAT, I don't see how the TWolves are better (record wise, ability to make the playoffs and go farther wise) and I think the Lakers are still really good - perhaps not quite as dominant defensively as they currently are, but I'd certainly be viewing KAT as a better defender than I view him now.

 

I think this might be the first time James Harden has LEAD the BB Ref MVP tracker since the 2017-2018 season. So that is kinda notable.

James Harden: 30.7%
LeBron James: 28%
Giannis Antetokounmpo: 26.9%

 

Doesn't really matter. MVP is about narratives and Harden is actively voted against.

He'll probably finish 2nd, though!

 

LeBron = 17th year, playing with a brand-new teammate (chemistry issues) that can be overcome yet doing really well and his team wins.
Luka = young, fresh name, playing with a brand-new teammate (chemistry issues) that can be overcome
Giannis = Efficient, reigning MVP, will probably be the best team in the East again.
AD = plays great defense, has a narrative going in that he might win both DPoY and MVP, helps LeBron
Siakam = young, fresh name, playing without Kawhi so TOR was expected to be bad. His team wins.

Harden = too inefficient, high volume (so ofc he'll get his points), flops/baits the refs, is already playing with an MVP.

Narrative is too easy. Everyone in the preseason wrote off the two LA teams and Houston because they thought the duos would cannibalize each other. Watch - as soon as Kawhi starts playing normally again, he and PG will probably shoot up the MVP rankings. It's. Too. Easy.

 

I'm pretty confident the MVP will go to whichever of these players is on the team with the best record. I know y'all really think it's a narrative thing but 95% of the time it really is as simple as "who won the most". Most MVP voters look for the best team, then look for the best guy on that team, and then build an argument around that after they've already decided. Very few of them actually do deep dive comparisons to see who they should vote for. If the rockets had a better record than Milwaukee last year Harden would've won it.

 

The Gemini Man.

 

u are spot on. that's my tale I'd something fishy is a form if luka(basically hardens game but not as impactful yetz) finishes above harden we will know its harden hate

 

He won't finish 2nd. He'll finish 3rd behind Lebron and Giannis... unless we get the #1 seed then he'll probably lose it to Giannis.

 

Doncic just jumped Harden on the Kia MVP ladder. You may have been right.

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/11/22/kia-mvp-ladder-nov-22-edition-2019-20

Harden dropped to fourth.

 

They have to follow the player's making the most buzz during the course of the season to keep it interesting. Otherwise people will tune out. This is really a "Which players are impressing you the most right now" board.

 

you're right, harden's only averaged over 40 points for a recent stretch, that's not very impressive. also, he literally said harden's the only non-two-way player on this list and then puts luka 3rd.

 

you mean unless it's james harden, right? because i'm pretty sure that's not how it worked the year russell westbrook won. the media hates harden so much that even russ, a guy who actively antagonizes the media, was still somehow able to be the first guy below a 3rd seed to win mvp in 30 years in a year where harden average 29/11/8, led the league in win shares, won more games even though both teams basically started the season with the same over/under, and was 1 point short of accounting for the most points ever. there's always a new rule for the vote if harden is involved.

 

I know CF loves MVP talk...



5. Who is your MVP pick based on the season so far, and who do you think will ultimately win the award?

Pelton: I would go with Harden at this point. With teammates starting slowly, Harden has again carried a heavy load for the NBA's fourth-best offense, and he generates additional value by playing more minutes per game (37.3) than the other top contenders. As far as who will win, I think the answer is whichever of the candidates' teams finishes with the best record, and right now that looks to be the Bucks and a Giannis repeat.

MacMahon: It would be an agonizing choice right now. Put the top four names in a hat and pull one out, and I'd be fine with it. I'm going to cop out and uncomfortably ride a four-way fence for now. Ultimately, I'd agree with the Vegas odds and say that a Giannis repeat is the safest bet.

MacMullan: My MVP at this moment is Giannis, but LeBron is a close second, with Doncic and Harden in hot pursuit. All four of them are playing remarkable basketball, but Giannis is on pace to post the highest PER in NBA history. He's scoring, he's defending with impunity, he's devouring the boards and he has added a keen sense of playmaking that keeps him a cut above the others, whose sidekicks (Anthony Davis, a rapidly improving Kristaps Porzingis and Russell Westbrook) make their jobs that much easier.

Windhorst: I just can't pick one player with conviction at the moment. What I do think is that it will be a real race this season and we'll be discussing it for months.

Marks: Harden. Teams have continually had to devise a game plan for Harden, even going as far as to double-teaming him on nearly every possession. While his efficiency has dropped, Harden is averaging three more free throw attempts per game compared to last season and is hovering right around 38 points per game. If the Rockets can stay in the top four of the West, Harden should have his second MVP in three seasons.

 

and Isaiah 54:17 as well

 

Likely. The benefit of the easier East schedule is big for the Bucks.

 

So far it’s either Harden or LeBron depending on the direction of the media narrative. If the criteria is best player on best team, then hands down the award should go to LeBron. He’s been awesome. On the other hand; if were talking about truly having to put a team on your back and winning in spite of major injuries and other difficult circumstance while putting up insanely historic numbers, efficiently... then it is without a doubt James effing Harden. Luka will win many in his career but I believe Dallas will cool down this year and with it Luka’s contention for MVP. That said, If healthy they will probably make the playoffs as a lower seed. We’ll see...

 

1. Giannis
2. Lebron
3. Kemba
4. Luka
5. Harden

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/11/29/kia-mvp-ladder-nov-29-edition-2019-20