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Who to draft

Discussion in 'NBA Draft' started by cteddo, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. wrath_of_khan

    wrath_of_khan Member

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    Here you go -- here's a Powe update (see below).

    The guy might not be tall enough to play the 4 in the NBA, but there's no denying his hard work. AFter hearing about this grueling training regimen, I think it's clear his knee is fine.

    Apparently, Powe worked out for a dozen NBA scouts yesterday. He is meeting with the Hornets later this week and working out for the Lakers with Taj Gray on Friday.

    http://www.insidebayarea.com/calsports/ci_3783765

    MAKING NBA TAKE NOTICE
    Cal's Powe, Stanford's Grunfeld undergo grueling training to improve

    By Jeff Faraudo, STAFF WRITER
    Inside Bay Area

    Suddenly, the differences between Leon Powe and Dan Grunfeld seem less significant than their common ground.

    As Bay Area college basketball rivals, the two were only casually acquainted. Powe was Cal's local headliner, the Oakland-born power forward who never knew his father and grew up fighting poverty. Grunfeld was Stanford's shooting guard, raised comfortably in the Midwest and the son of a former NBA star.

    Now, as they trudge together up a steep hill of sand above a San Francisco beach — over and over — or hoist themselves up a 12-foot pole — without using their legs — Powe and Grunfeld don't seem so different.

    Both have overcome serious knee injuries — Powe to his left knee, twice, and Grunfeld to his right — and both are intent on making it to the NBA.

    With less than two months to go before the June 28 NBA draft, Powe and Grunfeld meet every other day in San Francisco for a grueling two-part workout that addresses body and mind.

    In the course of a month, they havedeveloped a camaraderie and respect for each other.

    "He's a good person," Powe said of Grunfeld.

    "I root for him," Grunfeld said, "because I know how hard he works. We also understand the doubts people have, and the false doubts they have. But we're working hard, and we certainly haven't given up on ourselves."

    Their day begins on the basketball court at the Booker T. Washington Community Service Center, a cozy but functional facility that Powe's mentor, Bernard Ward, refers to as "The Lab."

    In the gym, former Memphis Grizzlies scout Don Sellers puts Powe and Grunfeld through a two-hour session that stresses ballhandling, shooting and technique work. The workout is organized, fast-paced and almost nonstop.

    Talking is kept to a minimum. The dominant sounds are the squeaking of basketball shoes and the emphatic noise of Powe flushing a dunk through the rim.

    Powe still has two years of basketball eligibility at Cal and the option to withdraw his name from the NBA draft by June 18. But the Pac-10 scoring and rebounding champ embarked on this personal spring training camp in order to assure that NBA people cannot ignore him.

    Even so, Powe wasn't sure what to expect from the second portion of his workout session. Then he met Frank Matrisciano, who has trained athletes of every ilk but also has clients ranging from businessmen to special ops forces.

    The word "crazy" seems to find its way into every conversation about Matrisciano, and the 43-year-old native of New Jersey does little to discourage it. Without a hint of self-consciousness, Matrisciano says a couple of the nicknames he's been given by others include, "Mental Patient" and "Genetic Freak."

    Grunfeld has been working with Matrisciano — an old family friend — for parts of three years. Powe met him for the first time in mid-April, when Matrisciano introduced himself and his "chameleon" training regimen to the Cal star.

    Chameleon training involves preparing the body for anything with a variety of seemingly simple but fiercely challenging routines.

    "I take them from 'Terminator I' to 'Terminator III,'" Matrisciano said. "That's no joke, sir."

    Matrisciano calls everyone sir, even while exhorting them to lift their legs and work their arms as they climb the sand incline. Matrisciano loves to work out in sand — he sometimes runs on the beach while wearing a 100-pound pack — because it strengthens the muscles around the knee without the pounding of the pavement.

    After his first session in the sand, Powe said, "Everything was shaking, wobbly. People were thinking I'm crazy because I had that twitch."

    The most torturous exercise, Powe said, involves him wearing a harness and pulling Matrisciano a half-mile across the beach. "That was after I did the stairs and after I was in the gym for two hours," Powe said. "My legs were burning."

    But Powe isn't complaining, and neither is Ward, who is stunned by the progress.

    "I can bet you, ain't nobody doing this," he said. "Man, it's only three weeks, and his lift is higher, he's quicker. Leon loves it. He can see the improvement.

    "He's now doing when he's tired what he couldn't do when he was fresh."

    Grunfeld is a longtime believer in chameleon training. He went to Matrisciano after ACL surgery in February 2005, and within seven months he ran a 5:10 mile.

    "For someone like me, this is what has to be done in order to succeed," said Grunfeld, who was averaging 17.9 points per game before getting hurt as a junior, then began his senior season just nine months after surgery. "I feel like what I do with him, I push it to a level that I haven't done anywhere else.

    "Something I learned early on from this training is the mind will give out before the body. Even when you think you can't, you probably can."

    Identifying that limit is Matrisciano's gift.

    Ernie Grunfeld, the former NBA player who now serves as president of basketball operations for the Washington Wizards, concedes that Matrisciano's methods are different.

    "But it's big results," he said, adding that basketball is "no doubt" in his son's future.

    Erasing any doubts in the minds of the rest of the NBA is what Powe and Grunfeld hope they are achieving. Is Grunfeld quick enough to play shooting guard? Is Powe, at perhaps just 6-foot-7, big enough to play power forward in the league?

    Part of Matrisciano's assignment is erasing any doubts in the minds of Powe and Grunfeld themselves. Getting the body fit is only half the job.

    He tells the story of the 1920s stunt man who walked a tightrope between two New York City buildings while pushing a wheelbarrow full of bricks.

    When finished, the stunt man greeted reporters and asked if they thought he could make it back to the other side. Sure, they said.

    "Do you believe I can do it?" he asked.

    When one of them said he believed it, the stunt man dumped the bricks from the wheelbarrow and said, "OK, get in."

    Powe and Grunfeld are now ready to get into the wheelbarrow.

    Cal fans probably shouldn't expect to see Powe back on the court at Haas Pavilion.

    "I'm coming in seriously," he said. "I ain't playing. I ain't doing this for nothing. ... That's no joke."


    No, sir.
     
  2. GATER

    GATER Member

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    Q4...the shot clock is off...my last shot at rationality....

    The narrowly focused and erroneous assumption pro-Redick folks are making is this. Yao will be doubled opening up a great many shots for Redick. Here's the fallacy.

    Most Top Tier WC teams...Spurs, Mavs, Clipps, and most 2nd Tier WC teams...Nuggs, Kings, Lakers, Grizz...basically play Yao straight up. If Yao gets red hot at any point, the double comes from the defender whose Rockets' assignment is having the worst shooting night...Howard, Stro, Wesley, Head or usually Alston.

    Opponents don't double off of a hot player. IOW, even if Redick is as good offensively as suggested in here (and I doubt it), he'll still be shaded by a player much taller and faster than any rotation he has seen in college. He will not be left "wide open" as many want to believe. If spotup shooting is his whole contribution, it's not enough.

    Do yourself a favor and critically watch this years' playoffs. The teams prospering are teams that can play at multiple tempos. Spurs slow it down, but are a very good team even at a faster tempo due to Parker, Manu, Bowen and Finley. The Mavs used to be PHX-light until Avery made them play D. But with the exception of Dampier, every Maverick is good at multiple transition tempos. Clippers can speed it up or they can dump it into the paint. And they have perimeter players who can postup.

    If we don't draft for multiple transition tempos and we try to roll back the clock to the mid-90's, we will be setting ourselves up for many seasons of frustration. We will be going upstream against the strong current of the NBA rules favoring athleticism and perimeter quickness on both sides of the ball.

    There's the buzzer...game over. :D
     
  3. waran007

    waran007 Member

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    Ditto. Just say no to Redick, unless we trade down at least 10 picks.
     
  4. drpepper

    drpepper Member

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    In the 1st round:

    Marcus Williams- my first choice. It's harder to find a GOOD pg as a FA than any other position, IMO. This guy has great court vision and very sound passing skills. He's simply the best player and what this team really needs. Perfect example-Chris Paul. He helped his team to 20 more wins this season. Alston, Sura, and MJ are not real pg's, Marcus is. This is our biggest need, not the 2. JVG needs a real pg more than he needs propecia.

    Brandon Roy- a close second. He will be a good NBA player. He's durable, versitile, and complete. He'd make a nice backcourt with TMac. I have no worries about his knee.

    Sheldon Williams- third. What can be said that hasn't already been said.


    2nd round:

    Depends on the first round.

    If Marcus Williams is not taken, we should then take Sean Dockery.
    He has a better upside than Duhon and plays better defense.

    If we take a PG in the first, then depending whose left.

    I personally, would like a player that can play multiple positions like Steven Smith. At 6-10, he's got good ball handling and speed to play the 2,3,or 4. Players like Shawnee Williams, James Augustine, Eric Hicks, Novak, Paul Millsap, or Marcus Vinicius are also possibilities.

    If we decide on a two then Ager or H. Adams are natural choices.

    If we decide on a 4 then Alexander Johnson, Solomon Jones, Matt Haryasz, or Justin Williams.
     
  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Is Marcus Williams the next Chris Paul? Or the next Deron Williams? Not that Deron can't be a great player some day, but if Williams isn't the next Chris Paul or D. Wade (who knows....?), I'd rather draft another player with great potential at more of a position of need (SG/PF).
     
  6. jopatmc

    jopatmc Member

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    MW is the next Jamaal Tinsley. Good player but too chunky around the middle and worn down with an 82 game season.
     
  7. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

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    Marcus Williams will be be a good PG IMO, but I completely disagree that PG is our biggest need. We don't even have a starting SG in place, w/ all the shooting woes we saw last season, SG is by far the biggest need this summer.

    Not sure how Alston isn't a "real pg," but there are players we could use in the draft before Marcus Williams.

    Also, Marcus Williams is turnover prone averaging almost 4 a game.
     
  8. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    If Marcus can be as good as Deron for us, I'd be ecstatic. Deron was very very good for Utah in the second half of the season, and he matched up every well with Paul every time they played each other.

    Deron is no Paul, but he's very good in his own right.
     
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Deron has potential to be better, for sure, but right now I don't see how he is a significant improvement over Rafer, if at all.

    Point being, if that's the case with Marcus Williams, I think we are better off looking to fill other positions of greater need.
     
  10. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    Well, if you look at last season, how many of them is better than our starters based on their productions?

    top 10:

    Andrew Bogut vs Yao --- no
    Marvin Williams vs Juwan --- no
    Deron Williams vs Rafer --- up for debate
    Chris Paul vs Rafer --- yes
    Raymond Felton vs Rafer --- up for debate
    Charlie Villanueva vs Juwan --- no
    Channing Frye vs Juwan --- up for debate, probably yes
    Ike Diogu vs Juwan --- no
    Andrew Bynum vs Yao --- no

    This is based on stats. According your standard, only two out of the top 10 were better than our starters, and we probably have #8 pick this year. Guess what, as bad as our roster is, if compared to the rookies, they are better. However, most of these rookies have great upside and they will be stars someday. But if you think a rookie can just come in and set the house on fire in his first season, it ain't gonna happen!
     
  11. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    CharlieV is better than Juwan but your point is a good one. We must hope our pick turns into a starter or a solid rotational player this year. The exception would be Bargnani who would not be ready, IMO, to contribute a lot next season. He may be the kind of special talent that is too good to pass up. It won't matter since he'll be top 3 for sure.
     
  12. drpepper

    drpepper Member

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    MW is a better shooter, passer, and has alot better court vision than RA. RA is an AND1 player confined to play the 1, IMO. He's a lifetime backup.


    Kyle Lowery is another intruiging prospect if MW is gone. This team needs a PG with great court awareness more than anything. Yes, we need a 2, but a better 1 early in the draft is more beneficial than a 2 .
     
  13. DeAleck

    DeAleck Member

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    Players I would take:

    1. Aldridge --- skilled big man
    2. Gay --- athletic wing with long arms and good skills
    3. Roy --- good all around game
    4. M. Williams --- nice height with good court vision (8 assists/per, leads the nation)

    However, I wouldn't trust my own judgement on this. I am a fan, just like everyone. I don't watch enough tapes. Almost all my opinions are based on what someone else said about him. Even if I do follow a player, I don't have the professionally trained eyes to make the good evaluation.

    Ever since I became an NBA fan, I've been following the drafts. Everytime, the draft websites call each of the top ten players the next:


    Dirk --- if he's a tall Euro who can shoot a little, can't defend crap and is soft as hell
    Peja --- if he's a kinda tall Euro who can shoot a little, can't defend crap and is soft as hell
    Bird --- if he's tall White American who can shoot a little, can't defend crap and is soft as hell
    Stockton --- if he's a short white guy who can pass
    Magic --- if he's a tall black guy who can pass
    Iverson --- if he's a short black guy who can score
    Duncan --- if he's a 7'0 black dude who has long arms and doesn't smile
    Garnett --- if he's a skinny 7'0 black dude who has long arms and can jump
    Shaq --- if he's fat 7'0 black dude
    Yao --- if he's Asian and over 7'2''
    Allen --- if he's a 6'6 black shooter (mostly from college)
    Tmac --- if he's a 6'6 black scorer (mostly from high school)
    Bust/Stiff/Trash --- if he's a tall White dude who can't shoot


    I mean, every year, the draft websites/experts are downplaying that year's draft as a whole, but touting each players as if he'll become the next HOFamer. It is crazy. There are stars each year, but most players simply won't make it and is forgotten very soon.

    So, I don't know.
     
    #73 DeAleck, May 19, 2006
    Last edited: May 19, 2006
  14. dream2franchise

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    Man i also can only go by what i read. Reading the scouting reports just add to my confusion, when it says a player can't shoot i tend to think, 'he's not our guy' only he ends up being the next Dwayne Wade.

    I say it all the time, the draft scares the hell out of me. I just hope the brass can hit a home run.

    Although i do wish to stay away from the Euro's. I'm not a fan of Dirks game. He plays cheap, and soft, he's not next level. His teammates are playing above role player status right now.

    Brandon Roy seems the most impressive though, his weaknesses are few, until they bring up the knees.............. :mad:
     
  15. DJ Naztorious

    DJ Naztorious Member

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    i AGREE wholeheartedly. terry saved dirk's rear end last year, too.
     
  16. hashmander

    hashmander Member

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    One correction, T-Mac is 6-9 so they don't compare 6-6 guys to him, it's always some tall, long perimeter player who's around 6-8+.
     
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Yes, but every year is different. I don't think anyone would be surprised if last year's draft class never turned out to be all that special. Still, if compared against Juwan, I'd take Bogut, Villanueva and Frye. The year before, you could have made the argument, that in their first years, Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and AI (if both are compared to Wesley, not T-Mac, of course) were better.

    In either case, the point is, it is much more likely that a SG we take will be better than our SG - NOBODY, or Luther Head, I guess - or our PF - Juwan - than better than our PG - Rafer.
     
  18. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    That's crazy...kind of. Who wouldn't take Dirk on their team? If you already have Yao and Tracy, it is even clearer. The hit/miss ratio on drafting Euro's doesn't seem to be any better/worse than any other nationality. You evaluate a player based on the strengths and weaknesses of their game first and foremost, then nationality can come into play if there are any cultural issues, buyout issues, etc. From all the scouting reports, landing a guy like Bargnani would sound perfect, but who knows?

    I do like Brandon Roy though. A SG with size, maturity, solid shot, PG capabilities, etc.

    The thing that confuses me the most about this draft is why Tyrus Thomas continues to be ranked at the very top. Only going off what I saw in the tournament, he looked more like a Stromile Swift than an Amare Stoudamire.
     
  19. m_cable

    m_cable Member

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    I guess the thinking is that a Stromile Swift with passion and intensity is the best player in a weak draft.
     
  20. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    How candid and refreshing! Where'd you stash your ego?
     

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