With Yao, you have much more options offensively, and our defense is better. Look at the offensive rebounds we give up to opponents now. Run & Gun won't survive in playoff, look at Phx in recent years. When T-Mac was out, we played very well too. Can you say we are better w/o him? NO! Same argument with Yao. Man, you are ignorant.
More Food for Thought I find it interesting that some sportscasters even during this recent streak have said how if the Rockets fail to advance, they just might have to trade T-Mac - implying that between T-Mac and Yao, that Yao is the one actually worth keeping and also implying that these two don't/can't work well together as it's been a sort of failed experiment. If ever there was a failed experiment, it's the PROVEN failure of running an inside-out offense under JVG and through Yao first. (And I love JVG btw) Independent of the roster changes, the supporting personnel through those years was recruited to provide two indisputable roles - defend, defend, defend and support Yao through high % perimeter shooting. Yet this clearly wasn't enough. Yes, you can probably build a franchise around a young marquee center in Yao. But insofar as a cohesive team? There can be a difference between value to a team vs. value to a franchise. In most instances, they are one of the same. But here with this either/or kind of question of T-Mac or Yao, there is a difference in value. People ought not to confuse the two. For example - last year, we could've used more scoring a la Mike James. He had VALUE to the team. But for the franchise, do we need him for many multiples of years. What I submit to the board is that Yao has value to the franchise (great value at that), but does his value to the team, equal or exceed that of T-Mac? And if not, doesn't that mean T-Mac is the more valuable from the team perspective? On Intangibles b/c they are importment imho. I mentioned in the previous post the importance of Deke and his inspirational motivation and leadership. Anyone who's played team sports knows that success DEMANDS leadership and great inspiration. From whom does it come from? You need these dudes. With Yao, I ask you, outside of working hard and practicing hard, where's the on-court leadership? Where's the inspiration? And most importantly, where's the dominance and emotion that inspires? Bottom line is I don't think Yao is that kind of player. He's humble. He's kind of a quiet worker per what I can tell. And he likes to defer. Nothing wrong with that. But as a player profile, he's soft, and is unlikely to reach the status of super imho. Think about Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, MJ, Hakeem... etc. All these SUPER players have strong egos. They demand the ball, they were outspoken, they WANT to carry their team and could do so. They inspire. Yao? Ummm... don't think so. With Deke, we are getting that sort of leadership. Combine Deke with T-Mac and we've got all the bases covered. Yao to me is a supremely talented player and a terrific, hard-working, humble player. My two cents. theSAGE
Remember, it's the rockets that should adjust to Yao, not the other way. Position wise, who do you think is better than Yao at 5? None. Maybe Duncan, but he is a tweener. Amare, no D. Howard, no O. If we trade Yao, we got no chance for the championship, AT ALL. You think Clyde can bring the championship w/o Dream. Actually it's the other way round, Dream won it w/o Clyde the first try.
good points timmy, but let me ask you this... 1. do you sincerely believe Yao to be as good as Hakeem? if not today, then in the future? 2. do you sincerely think we can't win a championship w/o a scoring center? i'll be quite frank. i believe otherwise. for example, to your first question, I think to Detroit. they won one championship with Ben Wallace at center. I think of the Detroit Pistons of old. They had Bill Lambeer and an aging Salley. I think of the Bulls with Cartwright and Bill Wennington. And I think of the Celtics with RObert Parish. Each had their own fortes but none of these centers, to my knowledge were heralded as "Hakeem" like in their hey day. Hakeem was a unique talent and a far greater one than even the upside of Yao would allow one to compare. to your first question though, looking down the road, I do believe Dwight Howard will eclipse Yao in many categories of the game. Again, imho. theSAGE
Who else is making 20m a year? Kobe, right? Take T-Mac out, add Kobe. This team is gonna win it all. Now they are lucky if they get out the first round against Utah or Phoenix. When you talk about the contribution, don't forget how much money he is getting and if it's worth the money. When Mac breaks his back again, very likely with the way he is playing, he will be worthless. And no one would wanna take him then. Even now, not a lot team would take the risk on his back.
, really, he had back injuries the past 2 years? and already predicting we're going to lose in the first round? we know where your heart stands than (this forum is not a yao forum ok?) and has kobe gotten out of the first round? u don't know how the chemistry will be if kobe was here. just be happy we can win without yao. next yr, yao can play 30 mins and rest up for the playoffs.
this thread has gotten out of hand somewhat. what are we arguing or debating? #1, is this (adelman) team better off w/o yao? or #2, who is the better player, yao or mcgrady? if the question is #1, which is what this thread is about, then i think the answer from most but a few insanely idiotic ones will be a "no". if this team, as is, is better off w/o yao, then we should simply waive him to gain a roster spot or trade him away for things like expiring contracts (you know, kinda like what the griz did). if #2, then we need to open another thread, of which imo will be even more pointless. there is no need to divide rockets fan base into 2 camps. and we're lucky to have 2 unselfish superstars. plus, arguing who is a better player amongst fans has never gone anywhere.
If the Rockets get past the first round and lose that would seemingly bolster the fans who are arguing that the Rockets can get farther with Yao. If the Rockets fail to win a championship that would seemingly bolster the fans who are arguing that to get to the top the Rockets need Yao. Yes, winning a series will be great, especially for T-Mac. But in the end what really matters besides winning everything? As for the Van Gundy argument, that's flawed. Adelman this year was playing inside-out basketball and the inside part was Yao. So maybe Van Gundy couldn't make the inside-out game work. Do you want to bet against Adelman? One last thing: where Yao being out is really going to hurt is when the Rockets go up against a big, traditional center like Dwight Howard. More relevantly, in the West that would be Bynum when he gets back and Shaq. It's an open question at this point who on the Rockets could play any of those guys.
You make no sense and idiotic. Its not about $20MM its about max money. You should say who else is making max salary? Replace Tim Duncan with Yao and we win it all too! All your "facts" about Yao is all fine and dandy when the fact is he has not shown any results. At least TMac has proven himself over and over without Yao in regular season games while Yao has proven nothing in playoffs and in regular season with or without TMac. There are no Superstars in this league who doesn't make the team significantly worse without him in the lineup. Yao just doesnt do that or maybe TMac is just that good.
First I agree with you in principle, Second, those big traditional great centers usually get their numbers no matter who guards them. Third, there are many exceptions, Phoenix Suns, Golden State Warriors consistenly beat us and Yao with fronting. If a traditional center is that big an advantage, why are we always an underdog against the Suns? We are not expected to win it all without Yao, but who knows that for sure? 7-0 is a great record anyway you slice it.
Wow! . . So much heat revolutionizing about if we're better with or w/out Yao . . I mean come on, I think this shouldn't even be a thread because isn't it common sense you guys? . . The past 10 games we have won with a double digit lead, and some say that isn't GREAT?! . . That isn't just great, it's DOMINANT by far, and in addition to that, we did it w/OUT YAO . . Clearly at this point, we are definitely better than Yao RIGHT NOW . . And if we pass the first round, I say we are definitely better w/OUT Yao because we haven't got outta the first round with Yao, clearly everyone knows that . . How about we all stop debating on if we're better with or without Yao and just discuss about other topics, and hope our streak continues past 33, and hopefully to 38 . . and maybe even to 54 if we finish the season with no losses and if we win every series 4-0 including the Finals . . I have alot of faith this season, I hope the Rockets can prove they got what it takes!
Don't forget Yao carried us to 16 straight wins(he didn't play Utah and we lose) before he went down. Show me a great win(greatness to a level we can't achieve w/ yao) after yao went down please. Dalls w/o Dirk? Or NO w/o West?
man stop it, carried us?? We had Tracy for most of the 16 games too! The streak 7-0 is impressive because even without Yao we still beat every team we met by 10+ points! You can try to make all the excuses you want and although I don't think we are better as a team without Yao, we are doing GREAT without him.
NOBODY is carrying this team during this winning streak. outside of the hornets game where tmac singlehandedly carried us for the most part, it has been a TEAM EFFORT. yao didn't have a lot of great scoring games during the run; same with tmac. we have a TEAM now. the yao and tmac fans need to pipe down and enjoy this rockets TEAM. be proud that this team is not dependent on its stars anymore. didn't you all remember what happened the past 3 years when yao and tmac carried the load?
Now you can say it again "TRADE YAO",bcz he is useless to the ROX,bcz we are better team without YAO,bcz TMAC can playing by himself and we had 19 wins, we are going to be champ. Why you hate YAO so much, did he ever do anything to you?
Who think this forum is better without thread such as: Who thinks this team is better without Yao? Who thinks this team is better w/ Yao?
I dont hate him, we are doing great without him and thats a fact. I didn't say anything negative about Yao in the post.
