Yeah, plus Okur also has somewhat of an inside game. He can score on the block and punish smaller defenders. Frye is a very poor man's Okur. VERY poor.
Nash makes the system work and not the system makes Nash a star. How is Mike D'Antoni's knicks doing without Nash? They sucks. Thus that proves Nash is the system himself!
LOL at all the people arguing that it's the Phoenix system vs. Nash for Frye's play thus far. Both are factors but did you guys stop for a second and think that hmmm maybe Frye is a decent player? Some of you act like he was some useless no name scrub that came out of nowhere. The guy is a former lottery pick and he looked real good his rookie season in NY and I thought he would improve each year. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and he got traded to Portland and got buried on the big man depth chart. This season it looks like he's finally paying some dividends playing with a good point guard and a system that fits him but it takes a competent player with skills. The Suns are just smart for utilizing his skills and letting him play to his strengths. It's doubtful that he keeps his blistering 3pt shooting up but it doesn't surprise me one bit that he's hitting them as I knew he had that kinda range and it's nice to see he's given the green light to fire away. If you don't shoot them how are you supposed to make them? On a sidenote I was all for the supposed rumor of Outlaw+ Frye for Battier last year.
My problem with Frye is he's an open court system kind of player, perfect for Phoenix but I'm not sure how that would work in our system. Phoenix has two guys worthy of a double team, and it combined with the spacing they have allows Frye the luxury of shooting unimpeded. However unlike Phoenix we have no Steve Nash, and we have no Amare so expect Frye to get tied up with his own man here. Considering how he wilted in NY as soon as someone mans him up I doubt he will be able to showcase his skillset here as well as in Phoenix. However, let me just point to everyone who's saying its just a product of the system or Nash, Frye worked on his game. So much in fact, that he's hardly the same player. Before he incorporated his threes in his game he was just an even softer version of Bargnani with some nice mid range shooting. If he had been hitting those threes before, NY and Portland would never have let him go.
Allow me to retort as Jewels would say. I've said this before and here's how it works. That extra 3-5 ft is huge, very huge. If you just think about Scola's range which is right at the free throw line vs someone like frye's who's 24 ft, we're talking 9 ft. So when you set the triangle, the travel distance is further, much further. If you make a stronside traingle with yao on the blks, tracy or brooks on the wing, scola at the free throw, the defender can basically split the differnce and prevent the lob. If you put a 6'10 guy in between the free throw line and the blks in which yao is posting up, that pass is impossible to make. That guy is basically in the paint with his arms. He's basically already below the free throw line and is long enough to be close to scola and Yao. Now if you have a guy like frye with that his range, now that same guy is above the free throw line almost in the middle of the circle which makes it impossible for him to make a play on the ball with a lob. If the other 2 guys on the backside have any ability to put the ball on the floor, then those other 2 have to also step out about 6ft which gves more room. If i could put it in picture form i would.
Well, we both know Scola's range extends well beyond the FT line. I understand what you're saying but I must contend that you're drastically exaggerating the effect Frye would have on this team and you're minimizing Scola's. Scola basically won us that Portland series once Yao destroyed them in Game 1 and they subsequently switched to fronting Yao 100% of the time. Scola killed them -- in fact, I'm not quite sure how you could watch him punish Portland with his range and not feel that he's an effective option to deal with this unfortunate yet very serious problem. If it was as simple as just plugging a 3-pt shooter in at the four I think somebody might have figured that out by now......or at least tried it.
scola is showing some 3p range this year as well. So the main strength that Frye have over Scola at the 3p is not that big. Looking at Frye 3p shot made/attempt for the last few years, 20/70. Thats an area that he clearly is not comfortable at till this season. Or it just might be a 3 game swing. However I doubt Frye have Scola's low post game.
Baller, go look at scolas shot chart, its right at 17ft max. Landry has more range and needs less space than scola. If u go back and watch the portland series, they doubled yao and basically left scola open and he made them pay, but when they started to front, the team struggled bigtime and scola was as effective. Brooks breaking down the defense off the dribble really hurt portland. Now i'm not going to say frye will shoot like this all yr, but that doesn't mean he can't shoot 40% for the yr. He's always been a pretty good shooter.
That actually makes Frye seem more sensible to the Rockets. There wont be a McGrady-Yao nucleus for much longer if ever again, but thats 2 players capable of a double team and giving spacing for Frye to operate The CURRENT system Rockets play now matches Phoenix much more than past Rockets teams. So if Frye's doing well in the Phoenix system, couldnt he do that with the Suns-lite Rockets system? (To be exact, most people say its more like Lakers triangle-lite than Phoenix, but there's more tempo and ball movement...) Frye and Andersen to me would be a wash so its whatever. Its if you care that Rockets put the extra resources and expense into Andersen. Which I dont really...at least they got a competent player instead of picking up a totally useless scrub.
Frye has always had a great shooting touch. He's struggled with consistency in the nba, but he is still talented. I think it's a combination of things, 1) hard work improving 2) a system that allows him to shoot those 3s 3) nash
Frye is a good player and would have been a great addition to the Rockets. Its unfortunate that we didnt go after him this offseason. Would have loved to had him, as opposed to Andersen. Man, Andersen looks so damn awkward out on the court. Always worried about pulling down his shorts, and setting horrible picks with his tiny frame. Luckily for him, his shot is pretty descent.
If all we wanted was a shooter at center we could plug in Brian Cook. He's proven over the years that he has that consistent range. Unfortunately, his poor defense and rebounding more than offset any benefit we get from that range. That's basically the same boat Frye and Andersen fall into. Maybe Frye can improve on those areas or do enough offensively that they don't matter. But as of last year he was not cutting it.
I think Houston wanted someone like Frye, but not Frye. Why? Experience. Frye has been int he NBa for a while, but i wouldn't say he's been tested and been on the floor in enough pressure situations. DA has the range Frye has but also has the experience. That being said, I wouldn't expect Frye to be on the same tear he's on with Houston, for obvious reasons, so i wouldn't dwell on the fact that we didn't get him since we ended up with a similar talent.
I can't help but think that David Andersen can be putting up similar production if he had signed with the Suns (i.e. a team that would give him minutes because any defensive struggles he may have would just blend in with the general state of the team) rather than a team where they actually care about D a good deal. Frye probably won't keep his FG and 3p % up (nobody shoots THAT well over the course of a season), but its clear he extended his shooting range and, as leebigez says, that extra few feet has a huge impact on the team. If a guy shoots, say, 45% on open or lightly contested 20 footers, it probably makes sense to leave let him shoot those shots, because that's probably a less efficient form of offense than something else that team might do. On the other hand, a guy who can shoot 40% on open or lightly challenged 3s must not be allowed to shoot that shot because that converts to about 1.2 points per shot, which is a pretty damn efficient offense. So, where as the opponent would happily leave Frye to shoot his 20 footers before, they would have to stick with him for the 3s. (By the way, this is why the Rockets did fine with Frye+Aldridge last playoffs (20 foot shooters), but get killed by guys like Okur and Bargnani (3 pt shooters)).
uh... DA doesnt look so experienced to me so far... i'm sure he will get it together at some point, but not like Scola has. I would have rather taken my chances on Frye as it would have paid major dividends. Plus, Frye is still only 26!
Well lets look at some other PG's who have played in and out of high octane offenses. Let's see, Baron Davis is a great example. He played for Don Nelson for 2 years (the 2006-07 and the 2007-08 seasons) so we have data on him before and after those seasons. Code: [B]Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS[/B] 2005-06 26 GSW NBA 54 48 36.5 6.2 15.9 .389 1.9 6.0 .315 3.6 5.4 .675 0.8 3.5 4.4 8.9 1.6 0.3 2.9 3.1 17.9 [COLOR=Red]2006-07 27 GSW NBA 63 62 35.3 7.2 16.3 .439 1.3 4.4 .304 4.4 5.9 .745 0.8 3.6 4.4 8.1 2.1 0.5 3.1 2.9 20.1 2007-08 28 GSW NBA 82 82 39.0 7.9 18.6 .426 2.1 6.4 .330 3.9 5.2 .750 1.2 3.5 4.7 7.6 2.3 0.5 2.8 3.0 21.8[/COLOR] 2008-09 29 LAC NBA 65 60 34.6 5.5 14.8 .370 1.5 5.0 .302 2.4 3.2 .757 0.7 3.0 3.7 7.7 1.7 0.5 3.0 3.0 14.9 Maybe I'm crazy, maybe it's just a coincidence that he had that jump in fg% and points only while running a fast spread out offense. Let's take a look at another Dantoni product, Chris Duhon. Code: Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 2007-08 25 CHI NBA 66 18 22.6 2.0 5.2 .387 0.8 2.3 .348 1.0 1.2 .813 0.3 1.5 1.8 4.0 0.7 0.0 1.1 1.4 5.8 [COLOR=Red]2008-09 26 NYK NBA 79 78 36.8 3.6 8.6 .421 1.6 4.1 .391 2.3 2.6 .856 0.6 2.5 3.1 7.2 0.9 0.1 2.8 1.6 11.1[/COLOR] Amazing, it's like he went from Rafer Alston to being a good shooter overnight. And of course, there's Nash. Code: [B]Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS[/B] 2002-03 28 DAL NBA 82 82 33.1 6.3 13.6 .465 1.4 3.3 .413 3.8 4.1 .909 0.8 2.1 2.9 7.3 1.0 0.1 2.3 1.6 17.7 2003-04 29 DAL NBA 78 78 33.5 5.1 10.8 .470 1.3 3.3 .405 2.9 3.2 .916 0.8 2.2 3.0 8.8 0.9 0.1 2.7 1.8 14.5 [COLOR=Red]2004-05 30 PHO NBA 75 75 34.3 5.7 11.4 .502 1.3 2.9 .431 2.8 3.2 .887 0.8 2.6 3.3 11.5 1.0 0.1 3.3 1.8 15.5 2005-06 31 PHO NBA 79 79 35.4 6.8 13.4 .512 1.9 4.3 .439 3.3 3.5 .921 0.6 3.6 4.2 10.5 0.8 0.2 3.5 1.5 18.8[/COLOR] So, what you're trying to say is that Nash miraculously jumped from being a good player an all star even (at 29) to being a 2 time mvp type guy (at 30)...riiiiiight. That's the basketball equivalent of 'I got ripped in 4 weeks!' Nash is a great shooter and passer but you're lying to yourself if you think he didn't see a significant boost in production because of the Suns' system.
Wow, is this clutchfans.net? I can't mindlessly slam a Jazz player without people backing him up? I must be on the wrong site.
You credit Baron Davis' boost in production to being in Nelson's run and gun system. But you neglect to mention that Nash came from that very same Nelson system. Is D'antoni's system that much faster and spread out Nelson's? I don't think so. The mavericks were always league leaders in PPG and three pointers attempted. The offense was world class. It's not like Nash went to the suns from Detroit. - You don't mention the numerous failed backup PG's the suns have tried to bring in over the years. It's not plug and play. If it were, Marcus Banks and Dragic might look like NBA players. - Duhon had a career year, but he did not dramatically increase his per minute production. He shot a career best from the FT line too, but that has nothing to do with the system. He's also stinking it up this year. - Nash lost both Joe Johnson and Amare after that first year and still had great numbers. Meanwhile, they can't score whenever he goes to the bench. - D'antoni is long gone, yet Nash continues to find teammates and put up great numbers and shooting percentages.
Or it could be the "ItsOnlyBeenThreeGamesEffectCalmDown" Effect. There seems to be a lot of that effect on this BBS.
